Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Jessica:            Naomi, welcome to the podcast. What would you like a reading about?

Naomi:            Well, I have cancer for the third time in my life, and this time, they tell me I'll die of it. How do I still engage fully with life while also preparing for death? What is a healthy amount of focus on myself versus the wider world for the rest of this time that I have?

Jessica:            Okay. So let me start with a couple questions. They tell you that you'll die from it. What does that mean?

Naomi:            Yeah, I have stage 4 lung cancer. I also have a small recurrence of breast cancer. And they basically said stage 4 lung cancer isn't cured. You can do treatment to keep it at bay for as long as possible. They say the treatments usually stop working after about a year. And they're hesitant to give me timelines, but I looked up the statistics, and the majority of people die within a year. 15 percent make it to five years.

                        I have been holding lightly in my hands that it'll be about two years for me, just to give me a light framework. And that's also just what feels true. But who knows what'll happen? I'm also not interested in longevity over quality of life. So, if the treatments become too toxic for me, I'll stop, for sure. And I am lucky to live in a state where I can choose to die when I want to die, so that's on the table, as well, just depending on how it all unfolds.

Jessica:            And that's something that you're open to?

Naomi:            Yeah. Yeah. Definitely, quality of life is the most important thing to me.

Jessica:            Totally. I agree with you 500 percent. And how are you feeling—I mean, this is too simple of a question, but how are you feeling about this diagnosis? And in particular, where are you at with it now?

Naomi:            Yeah. So I spent, sort of, the first half of this year seeing doctors and getting diagnosed, you know, lots of tests and things before they finally came up with the diagnosis. And I've been in treatment since June or so, for a few months now.

Jessica:            How is your body responding to the treatment?

Naomi:            The primary thing is that I'm just very tired. I have a lot less energy than I used to have, and I've always been kind of a low-energy person. Treatment was causing appetite issues and digestion issues, but Chinese herbs are helping with that. So it is really primarily the fatigue that's the biggest limit that I'm dealing with.

Jessica:            And your pain level is not particularly high at this time, then?

Naomi:            No. I have some pain, and I have a nerve pain medication that helps. So it's—the pain is manageable, for sure. Yeah. It's not too bad.

Jessica:            Okay.

Naomi:            Early on, I felt very committed—and I still feel this commitment to have my grief be a part of my life. So, if I feel like crying, I cry. It doesn't matter where I am, whatever's going on. If something strikes me and I need to talk about it, I do so. I'm not hiding my grief, not pushing it down or away or protecting other people or things like that, but very much living my grief as it comes up. And that has felt really important and good.

                        For a period of time, I had this amazing thing happen, which was that, basically, the thing I've been chasing my whole life—which is to be present, to live every day, to seize the little everyday things of life as rituals, and to be able to take care of myself the same way I take care of other people. I had all of that for a while, and it was amazing. That has sort of faded away. It probably had to fade away. I just don't know that you can stay in that state all the time.

Jessica:            Right.

Naomi:            And I also had an encounter with a well-meaning naturopath who really sort of messed me up. He didn't ask me why I was there. He was just like, "We can probably cure you," you know? And I'm like, "I'm not here for that. I'm here for help having the highest quality of life I can. I'm not here for longevity. I'm here for quality of life." And it also was really hard to have, on the one hand, the oncologist say you're going to die from this and, on the other hand, to have a naturopath say, "If you do these particular things, you can live," because I do feel like my whole take on all of this has been it's contrary to what society tells me it should be.

                        I'm interested in a good death, and I'm interested in having a good life up to that point. I'm not interested in running from death. I'm not interested, again, from having—longevity isn't my goal, you know? Extra years aren't my goal. And it feels like that's what it's—society wants that to be what my goal is. So it feels, yeah, a little challenging, I guess, sometimes to hold what I know is true for me versus the pressures around me.

Jessica:            And have you always had that attitude about death and longevity, or has it been kind of just the organic response from this experience?

Naomi:            It's been the organic response, I think, very much so. Early on, when I started going like, "Oh, I should start actually making some plans, which I've never done—make a will"—when I was starting to look into that more seriously, I found out something amazing, which is that human composting is legal in 14 states. I had no idea. And I can't even put into words the amount of joy that it brings me that that's what's going to happen to my body.

Jessica:            Is that the one with mushrooms? Like, they use mushrooms somehow?

Naomi:            It really is just compost. They really just take your body, and then they add things like straw and alfalfa and things. One of them provides nitrogen; one of them provides carbon. And the two together is what makes compost that heats things up, breaks things down, and turns your body into compost.

And then my friends and family can take bags of compost of me and plant things in their garden, and I can have a memorial tree planted with my compost. And trees are my people. They're my best besties. And so that just brings me so much peace and joy knowing that's what's going to happen.

Jessica:            That's really beautiful. I didn't know that existed, actually.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            That's beautiful. So I hear what you're saying, and I want to just say you have such a well-adjusted way of holding this. I wonder, how can I be helpful? We can certainly look at your chart, but yeah, do you have directions you want to point me in or questions that you want to ask?

Naomi:            So one thing is that I've turned inward so much, and I'm focusing on my own well-being so much and also thinking about, okay, what do I want to do before I die? Places I've always wanted to go—just prioritizing having fun, doing fun things. But given the time and place that we are living in, it also feels really selfish and maybe not like how—not enough for—okay, I only have however much long left to live; shouldn't I be trying to do more maximal good for people and planet?

                        And even things like—people have suggested that I do a GoFundMe and things like that to help with different expenses. And I just feel like, if people can contribute to a GoFundMe, I want them to contribute to people affected by ICE, people in Palestine—things that feel so much more—so I'm struggling with sort of this—between this sense of, am I being—it's such a privilege for me to get to go focus on myself, you know? And is there more that I could or should be doing in a wider sense?

                        I had been a home care worker. I stopped doing that because I don't have the energy, and it feels wrong to be directly caring for others when I barely have enough energy to care for myself, you know?

Jessica:            And I imagine you need to protect your immune system and all kinds of—

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Naomi:            Yeah. And I've always been—since COVID, been a mask wearer and that sort of stuff. But I just—I follow the news a lot less closely, even, and I'm just a lot less involved than I was.

Jessica:            Okay. I'm going to pull up your chart, if that's okay—

Naomi:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            —to really start to unpack this question. I know this isn't your only question, but let's hang out with this for a moment. You were born February 24th, 1978, in a place, at a time. Not everyone needs to know everything. Okay. And I want to just actually spend a second with your transits that are active at this time because what you're asking about—the importance of giving back, especially right now, and participating in the world is huge. I agree with you. It's really important.

                        And also, this leg of your journey is ideally meant to be a time where you turn inwards and you do exactly what it sounds like you've been doing, which is cultivating a relationship with yourself, the relationship with yourself that you've wanted to have. This is, from my perspective—not just as a person or an astrologer, but as a medium who's spent a lot of time talking to people who have crossed over—this is the most important thing, is being in right relationship with yourself, which isn't just about looking inward and having fun and taking trips.

                        It is also about recognizing that being in right relationship with yourself is about how you participate in the world. So the two major transits you have going on are a Neptune opposition to the Moon and a Pluto square to your Ascendant. How hard do you fuck with astrology? Did you already know this?

Naomi:            No. I only know the basics.

Jessica:            Great. Okay.

Naomi:            So I didn't know the transits.

Jessica:            Okay. And you also have a Uranus square to your Mercury and Sun. So, TL;DR—the CliffsNotes of these three transits—Uranus squaring your Mercury and your Sun is like this turning point in your life where you are changing. You're changing your mind. Your identity is changing. You're being exposed to ideas and beliefs and experiences that you otherwise never would have. And it's kind of happening fast, and it's sometimes really challenging, sometimes really exciting.

                        The purpose of these transits is to get you free, to get you more autonomous and in greater alignment with what's true for you.

Naomi:            I think that does track, yeah, because dealing with this illness and how it has pushed me to live more fully, I think—

Jessica:            Yeah. I imagine it's also changed your relationships. Mercury governs our friends. And in your birth chart, you have Mercury in the fourth house, which is your home—so maybe roommates, partner, that kind of thing. And it changes those relationships in a major way, and kind of all of a sudden.

                        The other major transit you have going on is Neptune opposition to the Moon. This is a once-in-a-lifetime event that does not happen to everyone, and it is deeply spiritualizing. It often coincides with this feeling of everything kind of falling apart or disintegrating, and it forces you kind of roughly to have a more spiritual and also emotional embodiment. In other words, it's a time for getting present emotionally but having good spiritual boundaries around that.

                        And so, when you said that you're consuming less news and struggling with what I'm hearing as a very healthy, loving, supportive relationship with yourself and also being aware that there's so much strife in the world and not wanting to turn your back on that—am I articulating that correctly?

Naomi:            Yes.

Jessica:            I immediately thought of this transit because it really does prioritize your emotional well-being and the need for you to focus on your emotional well-being as a matter of your spiritual boundaries. And also, it deepens your empathy and your drive to show up for other people. And that could be on a one-on-one, or it could be on a collective level because Neptune is related to—kind of like the way we are all collectively connected, right?

Naomi:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And so we'll come back to and unpack this more as we go. But I want to just validate, yeah, okay, so what you described is that tracks perfectly. And I'm kind of interested in whether or not we could identify things that are in your capacity—whether that's mentally, emotionally, spiritually, or physically or financially—where you can participate in the world in ways that reflect your humanity and your care but don't siphon off your needs at this time. Does that feel like a good way of approaching it and thinking about it?

Naomi:            Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. So we're going to come back to that. Let's not forget. And that brings me to our third transit. It's fucking Pluto. Of course, it's Pluto. I mean, you know, of course, it's Pluto. So Pluto is squaring your Ascendant. And when Pluto squares the Ascendant, it forces you to let go. It forces you to let go of people that don't serve you, of parts of your identity that doesn't serve you. It is transformational and confronting.

                        And Pluto is not about your death, but it is about the experiencing the many little deaths, the things you have to grieve. And when you named that you're just letting yourself have your grief and you're allowing yourself to—like if you're at the fucking grocery store and you have to cry, you just cry—you didn't say the grocery store part, but that is how I heard it, and I like it. That's actually ideal, I would say. So I want to really affirm that none of what you said made me think, "Oh shit. You're struggling with this transit."

                        It sounds like you're really meeting this moment, which, I mean, is all a person can do. It's the most a person can do. And so I want to just validate that. But I'm interested in coming back to your question, unless you have any questions based on anything I've said so far.

Naomi:            I think what I'm kind of realizing is that I'm struggling with maybe just looking at the span of my life and feeling like I haven't done enough.

Jessica:            Enough what?

Naomi:            Enough good in the world, like I haven't met my potential or purpose in this life, like I've always been sort of on the edge of it and then let fear or insecurity stop me. Boy, 11 years ago, I got my massage license with the intention of doing oncology massage, and also became interested in working with hospice, folks in hospice and people with chronic illnesses. And I've only ever done that work a little bit, volunteering and here and there, bits and pieces.

                        And I was once again, in the past year, making a push to really start focusing on that. I actually—my amazing landlords built me a studio in my yard—

Jessica:            Wow.

Naomi:            —for where I practice massage. And I finally made a website, and I was finally like, "Okay." I had cancer for the first time when I was 14, so it's sort of been a lifelong thing that I've dealt with. And yeah, the hands-on caring for folks in that way feels really right. But also, I deal with so much insecurity, so I never quite got off the ground.

                        And I knew I was going to die of cancer. That was just a belief. I knew it in just an instinct or an intuition. But I thought it was going to be in my late 60s. I was off by two decades. So there was always the sense that, "I still have time. I still have time." And now I'm like, "Damn it. I was wrong, and now it's too late. And now what do I do?"

Jessica:            So I just want to articulate that the weight of that feeling of, "It's too late"—I just want to acknowledge it. And that feeling, if you can work to greet it with acceptance and forgiveness—you're not taking from anyone that you wanted to serve. You are not avoiding the lesson that insecurity and fear—it didn't serve you in this life. But this is where we come back to the Pluto transit and, in a different way, the Neptune transit.

                        Neptune teaches us to let go in that there is no there, there. It teaches us about how things dissolve. And Pluto teaches us to let go in more big, messy ways. And you are going through both of these things at once, right? It's interesting because when you speak to your work—is that how you called it, what you came here to do?

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            So that's when I think, okay, let's look at your North Node, because that's where I go. And your North Node is in Libra, and it's in the twelfth house. And so this speaks to having a strong spiritual and mental/emotional world in which you are both accountable to yourself and able to be in relationship to other people. Do you feel like you have that with people, close relationships where you can be spiritually safe and mentally and emotionally honest and connected with other people personally?

Naomi:            I think that's what I've always sought. And a long time ago, I sort of just came to this realization that connection is hard for me, and it's the most important thing, and that that is my work in this life, is to cultivate and learn those connections. And what that has looked like in my life is like a series of very close friendships that often end badly.

Jessica:            Totally. Totally. Yes. Such is life.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            So, first of all, first I want to say that's your work. Now, I'm not saying also doing massage work for oncology patients isn't also a part of what you felt called to do. But when I look at, on a spiritual level, what is your work, it actually isn't massage. It actually isn't that kind of healthcare, although that's a big component of what's important to you and your gifts. It's this thing about connecting to people.

                        And the "but" is you have Mercury, the Sun, and Venus all in Pisces—so Pisces. And you've got your Moon in Libra—so Libra. And it just makes you so devotional and loving and relationship-oriented. But you've got Uranus in the first house. Your Uranus trines your Venus and trines your Mars from the first house, which—again, the CliffsNotes—what this means is, yeah, people come into your life, and you grow together and you have these experiences together. And then they leave. And then it's kind of like it did what it needed to do.

                        The thing that makes this kind of stickier is you have a Venus/Neptune square. And so you have a tendency to pour yourself into people, to be so devotional in relationships with the people you care about that you can leave behind parts of yourself, right?

Naomi:            Yes.

Jessica:            So you're not really showing up totally as you. And then, inevitably, you're like, "Wait a minute. I gotta get in here and be true to myself." And things can get messy.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And they can get really, really, really messy because you have your Pluto square to Mars. And Pluto square to Mars is a natal aspect that articulates that when you have power struggles—woo-hoo. It's fireworksy. There's a lot of power and a lot of struggle, and it's a lot of power struggle.

                        And so, as I sit here, I want to just validate, first of all, having relationships that come where people grow and learn and love and like and then maybe move on, looks very healthy and normal for you. Being so attached where you lose track of yourself, and then the only way to detach is messy and excruciating, is shown in your chart. But it is something that, as you were talking about meeting this moment, I could hear that you are actively being conscious about—I mean, you didn't say that about specifically other people, but you're certainly doing that with yourself, with your body, with your relationship to this life that you're in.

                        And so, I mean, I think you and I share values around how important it is to participate in the world and to give back to the world. But I also want to say this is your work, this stuff that we're talking about right now of allowing yourself to be true to yourself in a spiritual and emotional way, in relationship with others as well. My instinct is you're actively doing that right now in your relationships. Am I right about that? Am I seeing that correctly?

Naomi:            Well, I have two really old friends. We're keeping in closer touch with each other and, yeah, sort of not taking our relationship for granted, I guess, anymore. And then I have a very small group of other friends that—I feel they've been really showing up for me, and I feel really safe with them. I feel like there is some distance.

                        So, several years ago, when I—the last time I had cancer, I had a really close friend who really showed up for me during that time. It was really helpful and wonderful, and it was a really healing experience because I had had cancer as a child and was not in charge of anything. And my family didn't know how to respond to emotions and pretended that there wasn't an emotional component to having cancer at 14. So it was really healing for me to be an adult and have cancer and ask for things and get what I needed and accept help and all these sorts of things.

                        And then there came a point when my friend sort of confronted me and said that I was taking advantage of them and wasn't thankful enough for all they had done for me and these kinds of things. And it somewhat undid the healing that had happened and has made it hard for me this time around, and just ever since then, really, to trust that what people are offering is what they actually—like that they have their own sense of boundaries and all that kind of thing. And so I think I sort of have been—keep a little bit of a distance to keep myself safe, maybe.

Jessica:            Okay. So I want to just hang out with that, because first of all, fuck, right? That sucks. Something really important that you said, and in a different context, was your awareness of how insecurity and fear stopped you from putting yourself out there and trying things that were really important to you. And I imagine that the intimacies that you do have at this time of your life are important to you.

                        And I do see how important it is, on an astrological level, to give yourself the gift of being in real relationship with people. And so I don't know if all of the people in your little group are the right people to have a vulnerable conversation with and to say, "Hey, this was my experience. I'm scared about that this time. And also, I don't want to let my fear dictate my behavior. Can you promise me that if I ask for too much, you will LMK, let me know?" Is that something that you would do?

Naomi:            I actually have.

Jessica:            Okay.

Naomi:            I have said that. And yeah, there is a part of me that believes them and believes that these are people who are grounded and have boundaries and are checking in with themselves. And there's another part of me that—you know, when it all sort of fell apart with that person when we had our sort of last big conversation that sort of ended the friendship, I was just so shocked by how differently they perceived me than what my intentions were and all that kind of thing. I had no idea about all these things.

                        And I knew they had no idea about the things I was telling them, the difference being that I had a curiosity and an interest to learn, and they were just super defensive and just cared about how they were feeling. But anyway, it just sort of left me with this sense of, "I can never know anybody, and nobody can ever know me. And I don't know what's actually going on beneath the surface, and neither does anybody else." And I just—

Jessica:            I mean, that is so real. That's true. I mean, I don't want to say to you that's not true. You can't really know. And that's why we call it trust, right? Having faith in yourself, having faith in your choices, doesn't mean that you expect that your friends exactly know what their boundaries are or are always great at articulating them, or you always know what your needs are or your boundaries are and always know the right way to articulate them, because you don't. I don't. We don't, right?

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            But that everyone's going to try because that's kind of all we got is the effort, the try, the trust. Would it be helpful if I looked at them energetically?

Naomi:            Sure.

Jessica:            Okay. So I'm going to have you first say your full name out loud. And then you have a friend who has kind of dark, wavy hair?

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Then you'll say her name. So, first, your full name, and then hers.

Naomi:            My full legal name is [redacted].

Jessica:            Okay. And this woman I'm seeing with the dark, wavy hair—is she kind of the closest person to you or kind of the person who brings everyone together in the group?

Naomi:            Well, if it's who I think it is, she's my best friend for the past—

Jessica:            Okay.

Naomi:            —20-odd years.

Jessica:            That would make sense that's who I'm seeing. She has—I don't even need you to say her name yet. She has the intention where she will come to you towards the end and be with you; is that correct? Have you guys talked about this?

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And is that something you've accepted, her offering to do that?

Naomi:            Yes. Oh yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. Great. I do see that she is preparing for that. She's trying to educate herself about it and so that she can really be there for you. The friendship—I mean, it's long enough that it's had its highs and lows, its yeas and nays, right?

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            But she feels like family.

Naomi:            Yes. Definitely.

Jessica:            And she feels like you can really trust her. And I want to validate that, because it would be a real betrayal of this moment to not really see that and receive that. Her intention is really clear. And that doesn't mean she's not scared, and it doesn't mean she's not sad. She's scared and sad. And has she talked to you about that?

Naomi:            Yeah. Yeah, a little bit.

Jessica:            Okay. I think that's great. A little bit might be a perfect amount—might feel like too much or too little to you. I'm not sure. But not making it the dominant part of the conversation, I think, is very good for a friend in this situation. And also, not pretending like she doesn't have fear and worry is also really just humanizing and good because I'm assuming that the friend who gave and gave and gave and then was resentful never did that with you, never said, "Oh, I'm starting to get overwhelmed," or, "Oh, this is too much [crosstalk]."

Naomi:            Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And so having friends who can name, "I want to be here for you, and in this moment, I don't know how," or, "I'm scared about this," is a really good indicator that you're not experiencing a repeat, right?

Naomi:            Yeah. Yeah. She's the exception, I would say, that I feel—yeah. I know all that stuff that you said about her, and I'm happy to have it affirmed.

Jessica:            Great. Okay. So then there's—somebody changes her hair all the time in this group that is in the town you live in.

Naomi:            No, I don't think so.

Jessica:            Really? Okay. Is it orange hair? Red hair? Orange hair?

Naomi:            I mean, it's not in the group of people I was thinking about, but now I'm wondering if it's my landlord family. I mean, I am sort of friends with them.

Jessica:            And she has kind of red hair?

Naomi:            Well—

Jessica:            Or it changes all the time?

Naomi:            I mean, she's just like a really brightly colored person who—

Jessica:            Okay. That's who I'm seeing. And she's a bit older than you?

Naomi:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. But she has a really young energy, but she's—

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            —chronologically older. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            So let's acknowledge her as a part of this circle, your circle—

Naomi:            Okay.

Jessica:            —because I'm seeing that she is. And do you ever, say, get a coffee together, or do you spend time together like that?

Naomi:            We go for walks with her dog sometimes.

Jessica:            Great. Okay. I feel like she has a lot of capacity and a lot of energy, and she knows how to say no. It looks like she's very good at it. So, you know, maybe—I don't know what your physical energy is like right now, but I would take those walks or find an adjusted hangout, like meet up and sit by a river or something.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            You know what I mean?

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            I'm glad we're doing this because it feels like I'm seeing this circle of energy and support, and these two women happen to be very grounded and grounding, which is really lovely. Now, are these other women younger?

Naomi:            Well, there's one person who's young, a few years younger, and then two who are older.

Jessica:            Let's start with the younger one in the little group.

Naomi:            Uh-huh. [redacted].

Jessica:            Are they kind of a reserved person, a little bit more—I don't know if it's more shy or just a little bit more reserved somehow.

Naomi:            Yes.

Jessica:            Okay.

Naomi:            They're very ill. I've known them for 15 years, probably, and they've had chronic illnesses that sort of keep getting worse.

Jessica:            Their capacity is really limited.

Naomi:            Yes.

Jessica:            And the way that you have talked about life and end of life and quality of life and your willingness to be in the strength of the emotions of it all—mentally, she has that idea, but she doesn't—she's not there. She's not holding that. And so, as much as she does care about you and want to be there for you, she is confronted really personally.

She understands how she's not able to—she's not able to show up quite in the way that you would need. And so, therefore, what you expect of them—it does need to be a bit small. It's because of their emotional capacity. Does that track?

Naomi:            I guess so. I guess I wouldn't have worded it that way, but I guess it does make sense. Yeah.

Jessica:            It's not about their care. It's about their emotional capacity. It's a practice in accepting who this person is and what the container of this relationship can hold, and where is the fill line? Where does it start to get overflowing? What can it not hold?

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And this limitation is not—it's not the same thing as what happened with that other person.

Naomi:            No.

Jessica:            It's not a harm to you, as long as you maintain right-sized expectations of them. If your expectations kind of get bigger, it's not that you would be wrong or that it's not fair. It's just this person does not have the capacity.

Naomi:            Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jessica:            And I think I was guided to see brown, wavy hair and big, bright energy because they have capacity. And then I saw this person who just doesn't.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And when we talk about what to do with this time, this precious time that you have, I think this is part of the work of allowing there to be limitations and accepting them without it being like a judgment towards yourself or towards the other person. This is part of what's hard for you.

Naomi:            Right.

Jessica:            And it's really good work for you to engage in.

Naomi:            Like, accepting them as who they are—

Jessica:            Yeah.

Naomi:            —and—yeah.

Jessica:            And understanding that their care and love for you and their desire to be there for you is very real.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And it's very trustworthy. And their capacity to follow through with consistent actions is not.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And that's not—if they cared about you more, that wouldn't change.

Naomi:            Right. Yeah.

Jessica:            And that's really hard to accept, like, "If they cared about me more, they would do more," or, "They would be able to get over this one thing to show up for me in this way." That's not the case with this person, and it's a trigger. It's like a childhood trigger for you.

Naomi:            Oh. Okay. Yeah.

Jessica:            So it's something to be mindful of because this is your time, right? This is your time.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And they're in kind of a heavy place right now. Are they sharing—

Naomi:            Oh—

Jessica:            You know that?

Naomi:            Oh yes, very much so.

Jessica:            Okay.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. And I think they're in a difficult position because they don't want to drag you down, and they don't want to dump on you—

Naomi:            Right.

Jessica:            —which is appropriate, which is good instinct. But they kind of are at a loss from there because it's kind of all they know how to do right now because they're in such a heavy place.

Naomi:            Yeah. Yeah. I think we both really want to be there for each other, and maybe neither of us are quite able to—

Jessica:            Yep.

Naomi:            —because of where we each individually are.

Jessica:            Yep. That's exactly it. And so the spiritual lesson in this is, can you accept and have healthy boundaries around it? Accept that, "This person is limited in this way. I am limited in that way. Therefore, we can't meet each other's needs,"
 and that's not an injury to the other. It's just bad fucking timing. It's like it is what it is. And you are capable of meeting up in ways that are really lovely and life-affirming and are limited.

And there's something about learning limitations, that limitations are not a rejection, is really—that's such a challenge for you. All that Pisces, the Libra, the Neptune square to your Venus—boundaries and limitations can feel like a rejection and like an injurious thing.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And so this is a really good, clean—at this moment, it's still clean—relationship in which you can recognize, "Okay. Their capacity is not consistent with what I need, and my capacity is not consistent with what they need. But we can meet here and make pasta. We can meet there and drink tea and really share intimacy and care, but we can't—they can't walk me home. I can't walk them home. Even if I really need someone to walk me home, they're probably not going to walk me home."

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And I mean this all metaphorically, obviously. Now, there's two more people in this group; is that right?

Naomi:            Three more.

Jessica:            Three more. Okay. I'm interested in which one I missed. Okay. So now there's a really tall one?

Naomi:            Yes. Do you want me to say her name?

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. What's her name?

Naomi:            [redacted].

Jessica:            Have you all talked about the emotional component of this for both of you?

Naomi:            I don't know that we've talked about it exactly from her perspective. I mean, she's older than me, and she has seen multiple friends and family members through to their death. So this isn't new territory for her. She and I are also relatively recent friends in the last couple years, though we've become close.

Jessica:            She's got a real solid energy at her root and then a real wild energy at her crown. She feels like—

Naomi:            That sounds right.

Jessica:            Yeah. She feels like a really nice balance of wavy hair and wild energy lady.

Naomi:            That makes sense.

Jessica:            Yeah. So this is a really cool, interesting—do you ever hang out with her one-on-one?

Naomi:            Yes.

Jessica:            I would encourage you to really explore for yourself, is it of value to you/do you have the capacity to take in asking her, "How do you feel? I am going through this thing, and I'm sharing it with you. How are you feeling about it?" Would you ask her that? Do you have the capacity to listen to that, to take it in?

Naomi:            I think so, yeah. Yeah, it actually makes me feel I'm still surprised to realize that I've not thought about that at all.

Jessica:            Do not be surprised. It's something that most people would not think to do. What you are going through is supposed to make you a little selfish. It just is. Dying is so existentially personal and private and consuming, and it's okay. It's really okay. And if you sit with it and you're like, "I don't have the capacity"—maybe you decide you want to have that conversation with her, and you hang out next week. And on that day, you're like, "Huh. I don't have the capacity to take this in, to really meet her"—that's okay. Do it a different day.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            It's really important that you don't force yourself to have that conversation. But I do see that it will make you both closer, or it has the capacity—that conversation has the capacity to make you closer. And I think it's the thing—that thing, that fear that you have in the back of your head, of, "Is this person secretly resenting something?" The great way to figure out the answer to that is to ask directly, not that question, but, "How are you?" Right?

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            "Do you feel comfortable—if I ask for something that's outside your capacity, do you feel comfortable saying no? Have I asked for something that's outside of your capacity?" You could ask those questions. You don't have to, because all of these humans are grown-ass adults and accountable for themselves, right? And depending on the level of intimacy—like with this woman, I see that she would be—I'm hesitating to say she would immediately have a great conversation with you and it would be super easy on her. I don't think that's exactly the case, but I think that she is a person who has worked on herself and really likes to be accountable and would like to show up for that kind of conversation. And it would be good for her, and it could potentially be good for you.

Naomi:            Yes. Yeah. And we have had the conversations around boundaries and not doing too much, but we haven't had the conversation about emotionally how she's doing with what I'm going through.

Jessica:            I want to just clarify part of why I'm encouraging that is because, when I look at your birth chart and I look at your nodal axis—so it's like your soul's journey in this lifetime—it is about being emotionally and spiritually present with your authentic self in relationship to others. That's really the work. And so something as heavy but small as having that kind of a conversation—not where you're asking to carry her baggage for her or do anything different, necessarily, but to get that information, to hold space for her feelings being relevant, right, and her needs being [crosstalk]—

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            That, if you have capacity, could be a good idea. And I keep on coming back to that. I can't express it enough. This is not a conversation for any day. This is not a conversation to force yourself into, because it'll activate your Pluto/Mars square. If it doesn't feel good if you think about it in the next days or weeks, and it just somehow doesn't feel good but you think you should—you shouldn't. If it doesn't feel right, don't do it is my advice.

Naomi:            Okay.

Jessica:            Does that make sense why?

Naomi:            Yeah. I mean, I am easily overwhelmed. Just always in life, I have been. So, yeah, making sure I'm well resourced and that it will be useful versus just overwhelming makes sense.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. This is also the process of giving yourself permission and space to do scary things but to do them in a safe way—

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            —which, again, you named as a thing you're aware of that needs a little care.

Naomi:            Yeah. Another thing about her—she's not the first friend I've had like this, and it's been, always, women older than me, like they see me as really wise and fascinating, and they really want to hear everything I have to say and they praise me a lot. And I'm a little uncomfortable with that and sort of a little confused by it, though, again, it's happened multiple times in my life.

Jessica:            Do you have this idea that because she's older, she shouldn't be impressed by you?

Naomi:            Well, now that I'm thinking about it, I can think of a couple examples of where they were about my age, too. Maybe it adds to the feeling of me needing to put on a show, like, oh, I have to keep up this idea that somehow I'm impressive and great and have answers to things and wise opinions about things, and I can't just be a mess or whatever.

Jessica:            So I want to say there's the performance of wisdom, and then there's wisdom, right? There's the performance of intimacy, and then there's intimacy. And the thing that those two things have in common is they're fucking messy. Wisdom is messy. Wisdom means having enough awareness and knowledge to say, "I don't know. I cannot. I don't understand. I don't want to know." Right?

                        Wisdom doesn't mean being the wise, sage friend who's inspiring all the people. It means receiving from others—"Wow. More than three people in my life have said this to me. It's hard to digest. I don't know where to put it. And also, that's kind of cool. It's both"—and challenging yourself to be it instead of to take it on as, like, a sweater that's uncomfortable and just doesn't look good, right?

That looks like saying, "I feel utterly confused today and scared. I feel utterly demoralized today and sad. I am grieving, and I fucking don't know." Creating the space for yourself to be messy is wise. It might not look like wise to a lot of people, but it is. And whether or not you're going to disappoint her or burst her bubble is her problem to steward. It's her issue to hold. Yours is being a whole person in the presence of people that you trust enough to be a whole person with. And she hasn't really given you a reason not to trust her.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            So this is a good relationship to test this stuff out with.

Naomi:            Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. Now, we have the one that's really close to her.

Naomi:            Yeah, her spouse.

Jessica:            Okay.

Naomi:            [redacted].

Jessica:            Okay. Are you close with this person?

Naomi:            We've become friends more recently.

Jessica:            Yeah. It feels like this person has come to you through these other people.

Naomi:            Yeah, through their spouse. I really like them a lot, but yeah, we're not as close. We haven't spent time just the two of us very often.

Jessica:            Totally. This is why, I think, when I was looking at the group, I wasn't really seeing this person, because this person isn't at the caliber of relationship that we are talking about, right?

Naomi:            Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.

Jessica:            So we'll put this person to the side, and then we have one last one.

Naomi:            Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. And who are they?

Naomi:            [redacted].

Jessica:            Okay. Is this like a very thin person, a really small person? Sometimes I see really thin, or is it possible that she's just a little nervous or cautious with people when it comes to [crosstalk]—

Naomi:            Gosh, I wouldn't say so. I think of her as having really big energy.

Jessica:            Is she somebody that is emotionally intimate, like emotionally big energy, or more fun, talks—

Naomi:            She's more like the second one, I guess.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Naomi:            She definitely has the capacity to meet emotion, but she tends to bring, yeah, more the fun.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. So she—differently than the other person we talked about, she has emotional capacity issues. She's really good at having closeness without a lot of intimacy, somehow.

Naomi:            Huh.

Jessica:            Yeah. Does she talk about—

Naomi:            Oh.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Naomi:            So she's a therapist.

Jessica:            Oh.

Naomi:            I don't know if that's why.

Jessica:            Oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh. It actually might be. So is she really boundaried with her friends as well? Does she not do a lot of personal disclosure with friends, with you in particular?

Naomi:            I'm not sure. I mean, she and I, I guess, are in a funny space because she also does shamanic work, and I see her sometimes for shamanic work, which—

Jessica:            That's why she's so boundaried with you. Okay.

Naomi:            Okay.

Jessica:            That's what it is. That's what it is.

Naomi:            Okay.

Jessica:            She has both a friendship with you and a professional boundary with you.

Naomi:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And that's a little bit of a messy bucket.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Depending on—

Naomi:            It is tricky because it can feel like she's there for me more than I can be there for her, even in friend/group situations.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's like the setup. It's a setup, right? This is really—it is incredibly sticky to do healing work for friends. It just is. It's not really possible to have equity when you do that, right, because she knows things about you; she holds space for you that is just not appropriate or realistic for it to be reciprocal. If you can accept that, if you can be okay with that, then let's leave that alone.

But if what you want is a more intimate connection with her, then there is a cause to say, "Hey, I want to acknowledge we're doing a close friendship and we're hanging out, and also, you're helping me with this work. Do you have any boundary needs we should talk about? Do you have any capacity needs that I should know about?"

Naomi:            I think that's actually a really good idea.

Jessica:            Yeah, and it's a different conversation than with the big person—

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            —the tall person. That is a very different conversation. You're not checking in about her feelings. You're checking in about her boundaries.

Naomi:            Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Jessica:            And that's asking something very different from her than from the tall friend.

Naomi:            Yeah, and that actually feels good. Thinking about having that conversation feels good.

Jessica:            Great. Great. I'm so glad. And I want you to just hear that what we're really talking about is ways that you can actively participate in your relationships that feels true to who you are and not just to your fears or your sense of expectation from other people.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And this feels really, really important. Now, I want to just acknowledge the larger issue that you brought to me around not wanting to be selfish and wanting to do things in and for the world. And I want to acknowledge that I don't have an answer for you. But I can say that consuming less news makes a lot of sense at this time in your life, and recognizing that your capacity is radically different than it would otherwise be.

Giving yourself permission for that feels really healthy and important and feels like the healthiest way that you could then determine, "Well, what is in my capacity?" because if you try to figure out, "What's in my capacity to do for the things I care about?"—you mentioned ICE and Palestine, two very important and heavily crisis things, right? If you try to figure it out just sitting here right now, it's wrapped up in guilt and shame and grief and all these other fucking things that these heavy, deep things provoke. And if you try to activate from that place, it's too exhausting. It's not in alignment.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And so the real fucking rub is, before you can figure out what you do have the capacity for, it looks important to accept that you don't have the capacity you once had and that you do have limitations and that it feels messy and is also worth accepting because it is what it is at this time.

Naomi:            Okay.

Jessica:            And I don't see that as a betrayal of your ethics and how you want to live in this world. Does it feel like that to you? Does it feel like betrayal of your ethics, or does it feel like something you could kind of work with and towards?

Naomi:            I do think there's this inner knowing that focusing more inward and sort of with my immediate circle and immediate circumstances does make sense. I think I'm grappling with grief about wasted time and past possibilities. And I think, in the past, I did so much caretaking just in my immediate surroundings, and not having the capacity to do that even anymore—it's just one of the things I think I'm needing to grieve, I guess.

Jessica:            That's exactly what I think it is, is it's not just grieving the loss of being there for other people; it's also grieving your identity and how you move through the world and how you show your investment in other people. And it's pushing up against your need to—and I'm using the word "need," but you can disagree with that—your need to prioritize yourself at this time. I do think it's time to prioritize yourself.

                        And I do think that, for you, prioritizing yourself includes finding ways of participating in the world that reflects your values. But you can't find it in the way you found it in the past.

Naomi:            Yeah. I guess I just don't—I'm not sure.

Jessica:            Then what is the way? And—

Naomi:            But then what is the way?

Jessica:            Then what is the way? And I just saw this idea, but I almost don't want to say it because I do really want to encourage you to not look for the way before you find the permission to be where you are. And, that said—I mean, you mentioned a GoFundMe earlier. You could do a GoFundMe where you raise money for something that you care about. I'm not going to put too much detail of an idea on it.

Naomi:            I mean, the one thing that I still do because it's easy to do is give to GoFundMe's that—you know—

Jessica:            Yep.

Naomi:            —people being affected by these horrible atrocities. That's sort of the one thing that I do still.

Jessica:            That's really powerful. And I feel like you're at this phase of your life, however long it lasts—your challenge is to not push past the moment, to not push past the thing, but instead to actually hang out with it for a minute. And that's not always possible. It's not always appropriate. But on this topic, you are giving to GoFundMe's, and I'm assuming you have limited resources.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And you're not doing it out of guilt. You're doing it because you want to help.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And that is not doing nothing, actually. Right? And I think it's really important to sit with the value that that brings. And also, if things were different, you'd be doing things differently, too. Again, practicing acceptance of the messiness brings up grief, but it also helps you to stop resisting because, from that state of resistance inside of yourself, this is where guilt and shame and resentments and all the shit starts to get brewed, basically.

Naomi:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And there is a thing, maybe, that you can do that you're not yet seeing or doing, but you're not yet seeing it or doing it because you're trying to approach this question with a logic that doesn't resonate anymore, with a capacity that doesn't resonate anymore.

Naomi:            Yeah. I think I'm just going to have to meditate on that for a while.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. Let it hang out there like a—I want to say sausage, but I don't know why I want to say sausage.

Naomi:            [crosstalk].

Jessica:            You know how people hang sausages? Do you know what I mean, in kitchens? I don't eat sausage.

Naomi:            I've seen cartoons. Yeah.

Jessica:            Oh, cartoons. I've seen it in cartoons. I've seen it in Italian delis.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. But you're right. Not a—a cartoon sausage. Hang that cartoon sausage somewhere in the living room and see what happens with it. So I'm going to just take a pause, just check in and see if there's something else that we should look to or speak to.

Naomi:            There is one other thing. From the very beginning, like from when I first was told—given this diagnosis, the thing that has weighed most heavily on me is that I'm almost certainly going to die before my cat. And my cat—I call him my kitty soulmate. And it feels like I'm breaking a promise that I made to him, you know, that I'm going to leave him before he leaves. And it's really important to me to find him a good new home. And yeah, just wondering about checking in with him. Does he understand? What does he think about it all?

Jessica:            What's his name?

Naomi:            [redacted].

Jessica:            So he does know that you're sick. He's not perfectly certain that you're dying, but he knows that your body is really struggling. He doesn't know a lot of people, right? You don't have a lot of people come over to the house? Do you more go out?

Naomi:            Yeah. That's true.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Naomi:            I think it's a treat for him when people come over.

Jessica:            Yeah. So it's not like he's like, "Okay, this person would be great," or something like that. He's not showing me people.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            He's completely committed to you. He wants to be with you, on you. Like, he's with you. He understands what life and death are. So he would not perceive your loss as an abandonment. He would perceive it as a loss. And there is a difference between those two things. He absolutely is showing me that he will be able to smell it if you are passing. He'll know. I don't mean smell it. You understand? He's a cat. He will [crosstalk].

Naomi:            Yeah. I mean, and it is my intention to die at home, and it's my intention that he gets to be with my body—

Jessica:            You've told him that.

Naomi:            —as much as he wants so that he understands.

Jessica:            Yeah. You've told him that. He sees that.

Naomi:            Yeah. Okay.

Jessica:            You have this certainty that you're dying, and he just doesn't share it, which doesn't mean that he psychically knows something that you don't know. He's just not holding that as an inevitable fact in the way that you are.

Naomi:            Okay.

Jessica:            And I don't know why, but that is just—I'm just telling you what he's showing me. None of the people you've named are the perfect person—

Naomi:            I agree.

Jessica:            —for your cat. He is showing me that he likes older women. He likes women. Let's start there. He prefers women.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            He would like to be with somebody who's not going out and doing things all the time but who sits around a lot.

Naomi:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            So that's why I'm saying older woman.

Naomi:            Yeah. And I believe that he wants to be the only animal in the household. Is that correct?

Jessica:            Agreed. 100 percent.

Naomi:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            He wouldn't mind if there was a bird.

Naomi:            Yeah. That would be entertaining, probably.

Jessica:            Yeah. A caged bird would be fine with him.

Naomi:            Right. Yeah.

Jessica:            Caged animals, I don't think, would—he wouldn't like a reptile. Sorry. He's really communicating to me, which is wonderful. He wouldn't like a reptile. He wouldn't mind a bird. He would be suspicious but fine with a hamster or one of those kinds of rodents. But yeah, he's not really interested in cats or dogs.

Naomi:            Yeah, and that's the tricky bit, is finding people who would love a cat that don't already have a cat or a dog.

Jessica:            Yeah. I mean, there are programs like Pets are Wonderful Support, PAWS. Do you know that program?

Naomi:            Yeah, actually.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Naomi:            I think they do still exist.

Jessica:            Yeah. They pair animals with seniors and then volunteers to help seniors support their animal friends. Something like that might be a good match for him, actually, if you don't have a person chosen.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            He's showing me what he would like, but he can't picture a different life than the one he has.

Naomi:            That makes sense.

Jessica:            I mean, that's life, right?

Naomi:            Yeah.  But it's important to him to be able to go outside, right?

Jessica:            No. That's not what he's showing me.

Naomi:            Really?

Jessica:            What he's showing me is that it's important to him that he's with the right person.

Naomi:            Okay.

Jessica:            You're talking about life after you.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And so, when he thinks about that, his primary concern is not access to outdoors. His primary concern is somebody who will be in relationship with him—

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            —the way that he wants to be in relationship. And he's an adult cat; he's not a kitten, right?

Naomi:            He's ten, which makes it trickier, especially if he's 12, maybe, when I die. Yeah, it's harder to find homes for senior kitties.

Jessica:            Yeah. I wonder if one of the things that you can set in place is the intention to manifest an older woman—he doesn't have to have outdoor space for him; she can keep him in a house—who would be interested in having a really loving, attentive, snuggly cat companion. He's like a lap cat, eh?

Naomi:            He's, yeah, super snuggly.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm seeing.

Naomi:            But he's tricky because he's super snuggly, but he also is feisty. So you gotta be okay with the occasional attack.

Jessica:            I mean—

Naomi:            But he might only do that with me. I feel like it's a special us relationship.

Jessica:            Well, I mean, it's just one never knows how he'll change.

Naomi:            Right.

Jessica:            It's a momentous experience, losing someone you love, right?

Naomi:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And so I think setting that in motion, letting the people that you're in relationship with know, "Give me an older lady who doesn't leave the house a whole lot," like somebody's—

Naomi:            Uh-huh.

Jessica:            —[crosstalk] somebody, you know? The answer lies more in starting to widen the net.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And that might even look like finding a program that could navigate this for you or asking your friends of friends to connect you with someone. Your landlord might know someone—

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            —like not intimately, but might be connected to someone who knows someone. You've got enough—

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            —[crosstalk] in your life that you could—

Naomi:            [crosstalk].

Jessica:            —spread the word and kind of have it go. So that's the way I would approach that.

Naomi:            Yeah. I do think I've put it out into the Universe that I need to increasingly just tell people. It's hard because of the uncertainty of the timing and all of that stuff, but I'm just trying to have faith that it will work out—

Jessica:            Yeah, and—

Naomi:            —because it's important, too, that he's with me until the very end, you know?

Jessica:            500 percent. And I think having ideas and having people invested in helping you in this way—and this is a way that, probably, people who care about you who don't have capacity could help you because it doesn't take the same level of emotional capacity or confrontation with death, which is really scary for a lot of people and they shut down and dissociate.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            But this is a way that folks could really help you that you very much want their help.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            So that is like, again, a nice way to put out a big net.

Naomi:            Yeah. Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. I'm trying to just see if there's anything else he's trying to say. I mean, this guy loves you. You guys have a really great relationship. When he needs something, he tells you. You receive it one way or another. You give it to him. There's nothing—

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. And you've done a good job of communicating. That feeling that you're abandoning him or you're leaving him behind—I forget how you said it exactly—that's not how he feels.

Naomi:            Good.

Jessica:            Honestly, he doesn't want you to die, and he doesn't want you to go. But he doesn't have any feeling of abandonment. And cats are so much more graceful with the death and dying process than humans tend to be. He's a really good bestie for what you're going through.

Naomi:            Yeah, he is.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Naomi:            Okay. Thank you.

Jessica:            My pleasure. I wonder if you would be comfortable sharing—I had asked you before we started recording if there were things you didn't want me to say. And what you shared felt so important, and I think normalizing having a conversation with a loved one who's going through something hard and asking them, "What do you want me to not say? What's going to make you feel like shit or something like that if I say it?"—would you be comfortable sharing that?

Naomi:            Yeah. Sure.

Jessica:            You gave me a list of three things.

Naomi:            Yes. Don't say, "I'm sorry," because I just don't know what to say in response to that, and it feels like I have to maybe start taking care of you or say that it's okay when, of course, it's not okay.

Jessica:            Which was a really good thing for me to hear because I say, "I'm sorry," when people share hard things all the time. It's just been twirling in my mind to be like, "Don't, don't say"—you know, because the intention behind it, for me, is I want to express empathy. But what it does is it expresses sympathy, which kind of puts it on you, and then you have to hold it, which is not the intention that I would have. But—

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            —I really appreciate you sharing that, because it's so important to think about. Okay. And then you had two more.

Naomi:            Yes. Don't say I'm brave, because I didn't choose this. This is just what my life is. And anyone who is put in that position has to then deal with it, and that's all I'm doing, is dealing with what I've been dealt. And that's what everybody does. So it's ordinary. It's not brave.

And then the third thing is, with cancer, it's really, really common to use battle language and war language. And I really strongly reject that. There's not something outside attacking me. I don't have a virus. I don't have a bacteria. I don't have a gunshot wound or whatever. Nothing has happened to me to fight. It is my own cells, my own body, that got confused and sort of made mistakes. And we're trying to help corral it and bring it back into a helpful space, but it's all my body, and I'm not going to fight my body. It doesn't make any sense, and there's no healing in that.

Jessica:            I really appreciate you sharing these. They're really kind of grounding and fortifying for me in my thinking, and hopefully they'll help somebody, whether they're going through this themselves or they have a loved one who's going through it.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And it's so, also, important—it's like this battle language is the most common language I hear around cancer.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And it must be really hard to have to navigate the "I'm sorrys" and the "Fight, fighter, you brave soul," stuff everybody says to you all the time—

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            —and you have to just kind of figure out who to tell, "Please don't fucking say that to me."

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And yeah, that's just a lot.

Naomi:            And I mean, I guess I'll add, when I die, I will not have lost a battle. I will simply have died, which everybody does. And it's not a mistake or a bad—you know, it's just what comes next.

Jessica:            Yeah. I really appreciate that. And as a medium who communicates with people in spirit, yeah, that's definitely what it seems like to me, and also just as a person—like, we die. We do die. It takes a lot of emotional capacity to be able to sit with that and to be present with it. And I hope that you continue to get the love and support that you need around the emotional side of it, the spiritual stuff, and the material stuff—all of it.

Naomi:            Thank you.

Jessica:            You're welcome. Yeah, of course. Sorry. I'm just hearing from your cat. One more moment. Have you talked to your mother?

Naomi:            Be more specific. I did think to myself, like, oh my God. We didn't even talk about my family and how—

Jessica:            I know. I know. And your cat—

Naomi:            —difficult that is, but [crosstalk].

Jessica:            Your cat was like—there's this huge, highlighted yellow line between you and your mother right now. Okay.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Shit. Is she alive?

Naomi:            She is alive, yes.

Jessica:            And does she know about your diagnosis?

Naomi:            She does, yes.

Jessica:            And is she in your life supporting you?

Naomi:            She would like to be, yes. There's a lot of distrust there from—you know, my parents took really good material care of me, and they didn't know how to take emotional care of me. They don't feel like safe people to me, so I'm definitely guarded around them and edited around them. And I haven't quite figured out how it's going to be when it gets really close to the end because I don't know whether I want them there at my bedside. And that'll be hard for them, but I don't know.

Jessica:            So here are the things that I'm seeing—your cat being like, "Um, hello, are you saying goodbye?" Your cat being like, "Uh, this is not done." There's a couple things. Take their money if they are offering you money. If they are offering you money and you take their money and you don't want to spend it on yourself, give it to people who are dealing with one catastrophe or another, right? It's a way you can [crosstalk].

Naomi:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Sometimes people's capacity is so limited, all they can do is give you a manicure. And sometimes taking that manicure feels like torture, and sometimes it can be a beautiful thing to be like, "Oh, this is all they can do, is paint my nails. I'm going to let them paint my nails, and I'm going to receive the love that it is. And then I will stop expecting anything past this." I would say it would probably be great to have a visit with them.

Naomi:            While I was in that great "I feel so present in life" place, I invited both my parents, both my sisters, my sisters' kids, all to come visit me together in October. And I'm now wondering what in the world I was thinking. That's [crosstalk].

Jessica:            That's bananas. You did everything all at once.

Naomi:            Bananas.

Jessica:            Like a banana Pisces. Okay. So okay. You did too much. That feels on brand. At least you're being on brand. And okay. Okay. So I think it's totally fair—and they're not all staying at your house; they're staying in hotels or something, right?

Naomi:            Right. Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. I think it's totally fair to say, "This was a great idea when I had a lot of energy. I have less energy. So I actually want to hang out in smaller groups." If you want to do that—you don't have to do that—I would say hanging out with your mom one-on-one looks better than hanging out with your mom in that big group.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            I don't think that your mother is a different person. I don't think that your parents are different people than they once were.

Naomi:            No.

Jessica:            They're the same people.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And they also love you ferociously. And the question is, can you have boundaries with them and can you receive their love in a way that it feels like love? And there's not right or wrong answers. There's just what's resonant and what's true, and there's what's not resonant and what's not true. And even there's uncertainty. Nobody knows, right?

                        I want to just hold space for, oh my God, you invited your whole fucking family. That was a nuts move. And everyone bought tickets already?

Naomi:            Yes.

Jessica:            Fuck. Okay. Sorry. Such a crazy move. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Naomi:            It really was. I was like, "Oh, we'll have a family reunion while I still feel okay-ish."

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Naomi:            And also sort of get it over with all at once.

Jessica:            Totally.

Naomi:            I felt like I was giving them a gift, you know?

Jessica:            Sure. Sure. At your own expense, when you were feeling good enough to do that. Okay.

Naomi:            I also sent—you said I should accept their money. I also sent my parents money so that they could buy first-class tickets to come out here because it's hard for them to travel.

Jessica:            You sent them money?

Naomi:            Yes. Yes, because whatever sense of guilt and whatnot.

Jessica:            Bananas. Okay. Okay. Cool, cool, cool. Here's my advice okay? No more doing things out of guilt. You can keep on doing things out of insecurity. Fine. But no guilt.

Naomi:            Okay.

Jessica:            And what that's going to look like is acknowledging, "Huh. I have like 50 people that I'm supposed to spend time with while they're confronted with me having a terminal diagnosis and me dealing with them."

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And that's too much all at once. And so—

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Are they all staying in one place together, or are they staying in different places?

Naomi:            There are two places that they're staying.

Jessica:            Wonderful. You're not paying for a fucking thing else, right? Right?

Naomi:            Okay. I won't.

Jessica:            Don't do that, please.

Naomi:            Okay.

Jessica:            Okay. I just want to encourage you to think about and play with—because you don't have to make a decision until the day they arrive, but to think about and play with what sounds pleasurable. Meeting up with the sister and the kids? Does that sound kind of exhausting? Does it sound pleasurable to meet up with both the parents at once or with one parent? Does it sound pleasurable for me to bring them to my favorite outdoor café or to meet them in their hotel room?

                        Think about what feels like the conditions that would support you in having the kind of connection that you realistically can have—not idealistically. Realistically.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. And then I know it would be really hard to have boundaries with them and be like, "Okay, I've decided that I'm a little overwhelmed by everyone all at once. So here's what we're going to do on the first day"—how long are they coming for?

Naomi:            Five days.

Jessica:            Oh my God. That's so many days. Okay.

Naomi:            I know.

Jessica:            So many days.

Naomi:            So many days.

Jessica:            But the good news is—so there's good news. There's good news in this bananas soup, which is that means you can do Monday sister and kids, Tuesday Mom and Dad, Wednesday everyone together, Thursday the other sister that I know—right? Or whatever.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            You can break it up so that you have one-on-one time with each little pocket. And if you land that that feels really nice and you want to communicate to them, "I'm thinking that this is what I'm going to want to do," if somebody wants to change their tickets and stay for less time, they can do that. Does that seem possible to you?

Naomi:            It definitely sounds better to me.

Jessica:            Right. Your cat says that you have no intention of having boundaries with your family. Okay.

Naomi:            He is so happy, by the way. He has been purring and walking over me since we started talking about my family.

Jessica:            I've heard.

Naomi:            He's like, "Yes."

Jessica:            Because he's controlling the conversation. He's a very good friend. He's like, "You have no intention of having boundaries with them." So—

Naomi:            Well, except here's the thing. There's the boundaries that you're talking about, and then there's the boundaries of me not doing the thing that I talked about before that's so important to me, which is feeling my grief whenever I want to feel it and being honest about my feelings and talking about the emotional reality because, one, they don't have the capacity to accept that and they don't create a safe container for me to do that—

Jessica:            Yeah. I wouldn't—it's not a safe container at all. And so the homework assignment I'm going to give you, which your cat does sign off on, is to think about—it's mother, father, two sisters?

Naomi:            Two sisters, one husband, and a total of three—

Jessica:            Human children.

Naomi:            —two adult kids and one teen.

Jessica:            Okay. I'm going to give you the assignment to think about, not idealistically, but realistically, what would you like to experience or connect with with each individual person? Talk about it with a therapist. Write about it in a journal. Talk about it with your cat—whatever works. Think about it for the next few weeks.

Naomi:            That sounds good.

Jessica:            Yeah. Identify what your goal is. So would be really wonderful with your mom to have a moment that was free of power struggles, where you could really just experience and share love. To me, this feels like an achievable goal, not an easy goal. But if you had it, it would be beautiful. The more time you spend with her, the less likely that is to happen. So, again, control and contain is a good strategy.

Just think about these things because this is your life. This is your precious time. And the pattern of allowing fear or insecurity to stop you from meeting this family moment—it's not worth it. You're somewhere else now. Let yourself be in this new place. Let me just see what he says. No, I said what I needed to say. Is he sitting now? Is he calm?

Naomi:            He left the room.

Jessica:            Yeah. That's right. He's done. We did it. We did it. You're welcome.

Naomi:            We did it.

Jessica:            You're welcome. We did it. Yeah. He's just like—I was just like, "Oh, it's done. Okay. It's over. It's over." So he left the room. Perfect. Perfect. I really like this guy. He is amazing.

Naomi:            I do, too.

Jessica:            He's really cool. He's a really cool person. You're on this really intense and scary and beautiful journey. And I really—I wish you the absolute most of everything that you want on it. If you're confused about what to do with your family or with friends, ask your cat because he's got great advice. He's really got great advice. He's got a great perspective. He hangs out when he wants to hang out. He leaves the room when he wants to leave the room. And it never makes you feel like he doesn't love you. He's just doing himself.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            He's a great model. He's a great model and a great support. And even when he attacks you, you're like, "Oh shit. Here he goes." But it doesn't break anything.

Naomi:            No, not at all. It's just he needs to get something out, and that's okay.

Jessica:            And this relationship is a really good inspiration for your other relationships.

Naomi:            Yeah. That's right.

Jessica:            What you have with him is like you just accept him for who he is.

Naomi:            Yeah, that's true.

Jessica:            You know, it would be great if he didn't attack you here and there, you know? It'd be great if he just meowed instead of attacked. But he doesn't have that capacity, and you accept it.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And your capacity to accept doesn't mean you don't have boundaries with him. You leave the house even if he doesn't want you to. You put him down even when he wants to snuggle or whatever else it is.

Naomi:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            This is a really—he's got good advice.

Naomi:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And it's a really good model relationship. So I hope you have a really good night, and yeah, my heart's with yours.

Naomi:            Thank you so much.

Jessica:            My pleasure.