Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Jessica:            BG, welcome to the podcast. Tell me what you would like a reading about.

BG:                 Hi, Jessica. Thanks so much for making the time. I would love a reading about why I can't make the most of my privileges, you know? Basically, my question was, despite my Jupiter, Mercury, and Pluto trining my Mars in the second house and despite having Jupiter in Sagittarius in the sixth house, all of which I consider favorable aspects to make money, I generally feel like I'm feeling [indiscernible 00:00:49]. I also feel like it's part of my family history.

                        And right now, what's really bugging me is that I haven't been able to secure stable income in years. And besides the employment—the job market right now, I'm just—you know, I'm starting to build my own company, and I'm teaching. It's not like I'm sitting there and feeling—I've had these moments, feeling depressed and despair about it, but now I'm really going after it. So I'd really appreciate your guidance on how to build—

Jessica:            Yeah. I have so much to say about money and your chart. I'm going to pull up your chart right away. Hold on here.

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            So you were born in April of 1995 in a city, in a place—not everybody needs to fucking know everything—at 11:38 a.m. local time. And we just want to take a moment to say Scorpio Moon—privacy. Respect.

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. So Mercury is not trining your Mars, but you have Mars on the second-house cusp, and it is tightly trining your Jupiter. It's not trining your Pluto. I wonder if you're thinking in terms of zodiac sign instead of degree.

BG:                 Probably.

Jessica:            Some astrologers do that. I don't, personally. But I have so much to say, so giddyap. Get ready. When I look at your birth chart, immediately, I see that money is hard. Let me tell you fucking why.

BG:                 Oh my God.

Jessica:            I'm sorry. I'm sorry. If we look at the top of your chart here, we see Saturn conjunct the Midheaven conjunct Venus. Let me tell you what it means. Venus governs what you have. So it's like cash in hand. We look to the second house for, also, your personal possessions, your personal finances, your liquid resources. But the second house is governed, of course, by Venus. And so Venus is an important player in understanding your relationship to money. And in your chart, it's conjunct fucking Saturn. You know what I'm saying?

BG:                 Limits.

Jessica:            Limits.

BG:                 Oh my God.

Jessica:            It's every dollar earned is a dollar labored, right?

BG:                 Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            The relationship to money is often—it doesn't come easy. It's hard to make it happen. Because it's connected to your career, because the Midheaven is sandwiched in between, what we see is that, for you, having a sense of meaning, having something larger than yourself that you're building towards—

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            —is essential; otherwise, you feel like you are being punished, basically.

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah.

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            Let's add to that. Let's add to that. I love it that you've clocked the Mars/Jupiter trine. That is beautiful. It's great for being like, "I have confidence. I can spend this money. It'll come back later." It is not great for earning money.

BG:                 It's not great.

Jessica:            It's not great for earning money. In fact, if that was the only aspect you had from Jupiter, we could talk about it in a different way. But instead, let's talk about this.

BG:                 Okay.

Jessica:            The Jupiter/Saturn square. You have a Jupiter/Saturn square. And so you struggle to make plans that are expansive and structured. You tend to create restrictive plans or a lack of structure.

BG:                 Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Okay.

BG:                 Oh my God. Wow.

Jessica:            Okay. Sorry. We're going to talk about ways of coping with everything, but I'm not done. I'm not done.

BG:                 Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            Also, you have got this beautiful Sun/Mercury conjunction over here in your little eleventh house.

BG:                 Okay.

Jessica:            Your Sun/Mercury conjunction—it's like you're motivated and you have ideas, and you're motivated and you have ideas. So much fire.

BG:                 Yep. Yep.

Jessica:            So much excitement. You pair that with that Mars/Jupiter trine, right?

BG:                 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            You have confidence and you have ideas, and you have energy. There's a disconnect between playing the game, planning over time, and the labor required to enjoy money in a way that doesn't overextend, to make money in a way that isn't too laborious. And so it can be hard for you to emotionally integrate. And this is where I want to just take a moment to hang out with your feelings because you even mentioned feeling really badly about money in the past, which—I mean, we all have strong feelings about money in a capitalistic world.

                        But you've got your Moon in Scorpio intercepted into the fifth house, which means contextually that you genuinely want to have a sense of play, a sense of resiliency, a sense of enjoyment. And when you don't, the intensity of your emotions comes up really strong. And you were raised in such a way that you're not supposed to be that way. I don't know if it's—you're not supposed to feel intense about anything, or if it's that you're not supposed to be too heavy-handed about your emotions.

BG:                 Yeah. It's more like no emotions at all, please.

Jessica:            Okay. So everybody just be placid, basically.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            Like, everybody be chill. Okay. So you are not chill. I will say you have—

BG:                 I'm not.

Jessica:            —so many lovely qualities, but none of them are chill.

BG:                 Oh yeah. Definitely not. Mm-mm.

Jessica:            And related to that, money is hard for fucking everybody. We're talking in broad strokes at this moment about how it's hard for you. But when you have very real emotions—and your emotions always run deep. When you have really intense emotions come up, then you start being like, "Oh God. I shouldn't feel this way."

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

BG:                 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jessica:            And it's the "I shouldn't feel this way" that really fucks you up because, instead of being like, "Okay. I am going to let myself have these big emotions, and then I'm going to come back to my plans, my struggles"—whatever it is that needs more linear attention, more Mercurial intention. This is a weird metaphor. It's a very Moon in Scorpio metaphor, but it's kind of like you used a sponge to wipe down the countertops, but you're not wanting to rinse and squeeze out the sponge. You're like, "No, no, no. It's bad to rinse out the sponge." But then you don't squeeze it.

BG:                 I never rinse and squeeze the sponge. I never rinse the sponge.

Jessica:            You never do.

BG:                 I don't like the sponge.

Jessica:            You literally don't like the sponge. Very Moon in Scorpio. Moon in Scorpio is very like rooms with plumbing in the house—like kitchen, bathroom—and it can be really weird for you because, literally, you have this interception.

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            And there's other things we could point to in the chart, honestly. I'll get to them. But I just want to say, as you age—because you were born in 1995, so you're still in your early 30s.

BG:                 I'm 30.

Jessica:            You're 30. You're not even post-Christ year. Okay. Great.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            Good. I wouldn't expect you to have a fantastic and fluid relationship with money before your first Saturn Return cycle was completed—

BG:                 Right.

Jessica:            —in other words, before the age of 34. The Saturn Return is over. However, what happens is, after that first Saturn Return, is it's done. And then life goes back to normal. You live your fucking life. And then you hit the age of 33, and all through the age of 33, you bear the consequences of what you did and didn't do during that Saturn Return.

BG:                 Yes, yes, yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            And so, basically, before the age of 34, I wouldn't expect you to have your relationship to money worked out because your Saturn Return is tied to Venus.

BG:                 Oh God. Okay.

Jessica:            And so let's go back. Your Saturn Return was completely over in March of 2025.

BG:                 Well, that's the beginning of my deep, deep depression last year, March 2025.

Jessica:            Okay. I'm going to tell you why in a hot second, okay? Because there's a reason why. I see it right away. Your Saturn Return started in January of 2025.

BG:                 Oh. Okay.

Jessica:            So it was January—it was several months, right?

BG:                 Oh, mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Yeah. And that tracks.

BG:                 It does.

Jessica:            So, if we look at your chart—so we've got Saturn at 19 degrees and 52 minutes. We'll call that Saturn at 20 degrees. Your Midheaven—20 degrees. So, when your Saturn Return was occurring, it was also conjoined your Midheaven. So it was in that period, a time when you were being really required to take responsibility for building your dreams—

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            —for organizing your public life and the things you do on purpose to build, basically.

BG:                 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Jessica:            But then, March 2025, guess what happened: fucking Saturn sat on top of your Venus. That happens once every 29 years.

BG:                 Oh, [crosstalk].

Jessica:            And Saturn conjunction to Venus—did you go through a breakup?

BG:                 Well, the breakup happened in June. But it was a deeper—I got medicated in June 2025. Everything got better around June 2025. But it was like the beginning of the end of me being able to live the way that I was living, meaning struggling with my neurodivergence and trying to make ends—it's just like my everyday life physically, neurologically wasn't working, you know?

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

BG:                 It was like I couldn't sustain it. So, yeah, that's—I would say that.

Jessica:            Well, it's interesting because June is when Saturn moved into Aries. It got out of Pisces to kind of leave you alone. It started to sextile your Pluto, so things started to kind of more deeply click for you.

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Jessica:            The period of the Saturn Return is one where you either choose to accept who you've grown into, who you are, or you bear the pain of not doing that. And it sounds like you did both, right? Which is most commonly what happens.

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And so the feelings that you were going through, the relationship dynamics you were going through—we're going to put them right here for a second, and we're going to focus on your finances and how you were engaging with the world on that level because that's what you're asking me about, right?

BG:                 Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            So what was going on in that moment? Were you working? Were you making money? Were you struggling? What was up?

BG:                 Okay. So I feel like I had some hope that I would—like I was applying to a bunch of jobs. I was job hunting heavily. And I think I was getting discouraged, like that was the despair part of the job-hunting process. And so, financially, I wasn't doing well. I had to borrow money.

March 2025, actually, I had this gig that was supposedly paying really well. And there was miscommunication. I did not stand up for myself enough because I was kind of at a loss for words in the situation. The person didn't want to pay me the full amount that I was owed. And so I was supposed to get a certain amount of money; I got less. And I was already in a difficult financial situation.

                        So that's—I think this one thing really sums up—I was getting money here and there, but it wasn't like a peaceful process at all, you know?

Jessica:            Were you doing work that you wanted to be doing, or were you just kind of getting what you could at the time?

BG:                 I thought that that's what I wanted at the time, you know?

Jessica:            Mm-hmm.

BG:                 But I don't think it is anymore.

Jessica:            So those themes—not the specifics, okay? The theme of not knowing your worth and having to negotiate your worth—

BG:                 Right. Right.

Jessica:            —that theme, for instance, is a theme that will be playing out until the age of 33.

BG:                 Great.

Jessica:            And then, at the age of 33, you're going to get some results.

BG:                 Okay.

Jessica:            The theme of trying to figure out how to make ends meet—again, same thing. The theme of kind of pounding the pavement and asking for—trying to make things happen—that—whether or not that's authentic to you, that's playing itself out, right? And I just want to ground you into that, because 33 can be, really, a rough year for a lot of people.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            And so the more you are aware that, even though those themes that were going on between January and March—they're not active in the same way right now. Trust they are still active, okay?

BG:                 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            You're supposed to be learning those same lessons moving forward.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            So, that said, I want to kind of stay high level for a minute.

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            This high-level issue of, "I'm not making the most of my privileges," which is part of what really surprised me about the wording of your question. I was like, "That's a really affirmed, abundant, centric way of holding this." Right? You know.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            And I just want to say this is wonderful and this is really helpful. And thank you, Mars in Leo in the second house trine Jupiter, right?

BG:                 Right.

Jessica:            You're just like, "I have privileges."

BG:                 [crosstalk] bank account.

Jessica:            Yes. Yes. So okay. So there's that. But here's the thing. The Venus/Saturn/Midheaven matchup can suggest the building of abundance and wealth. But Saturn's form of abundance is slowly building up over time, right?

BG:                 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And Mars and Jupiter are the two least patient planets in the zodiac.

BG:                 Yep, yep, yep.

Jessica:            And so you're like, "Well, okay. That's fine, but what about right now? Okay, but how about now? Okay, but wait—now?"

BG:                 I mean, that's exactly my question.

Jessica:            I know. So projects can make you money quickly now. Projects. And that's a way to make money and a way to relate to work, not career. Work. Projects work. That's how it functions best for you, as opposed to getting a 9:00 to 5:00.

BG:                 Oh yeah.

Jessica:            That's not your best way of making money, right?

BG:                 Oh, that's good to know.

Jessica:            Yes.

BG:                 That's really good to know.

Jessica:            Project-based working is good for you.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            You love to get in there, start something, get in the middle. You get a little bored by the finishing final stretch, but still, you can do it if it's not too long of a project.

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            But then there's the bigger projects of your life. And those larger projects, for you, all have scaffolding. They have a big-ass plan.

BG:                 Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            And they can make you money, but they tend to make you money very slowly.

BG:                 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And real talks—you have a Aquarius on your eighth-house cusp. You have Leo on your second-house cusp. You like to spend money.

BG:                 I do.

Jessica:            And you do it impulsively. You're not planning on spending money.

BG:                 Well, I try to do better with it now. I have a budget. My roommate is an Aquarius, and so I really rely on my community. And I'm part of a program where we talk about relationship to money, when it comes to being a survivor.

Jessica:            I love this.

BG:                 I have a wish list now. And so, whenever I want something, I put it on my wish list instead of, like, needing to buy it now.

Jessica:            Press the button. Buy it now.

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. I love to hear this. And here's the thing about your chart. You have this part of you, this Mars/Jupiter part—this part of you that is like, "Must have now. It's so fun to get it." And then there's this other part of you, that Venus/Saturn part—and you have other parts as well, but we're just focusing here—that is like, "Everything that is worth having is worth breaking your back over. I'm going to work so hard. I'm going to work for so long. I'm going to become an expert, and that's where my abundance will emerge from." And they don't have to be at war with each other, although I imagine in your 20s they were.

BG:                 [crosstalk].

Jessica:            But it was like, "I'm going to wear only black," or, "I'm going to wear every color in the rainbow all at once." It's kind of this all-or-nothing kind of approach. Does that track for you?

BG:                 I feel seen. I feel seen.

Jessica:            Okay. Good. Now, that said, as you mature, as you age, as you integrate, as we ideally hopefully do in our 30s, the option here is to engage in projects both as side hustle but also as a way to relate to the big-picture goal. Creating a big-picture plan—let's say a one-year-long plan or a five-year-long plan—and within that, lots of projects that have really clear beginning, middle, and end and do not drag out over too long.

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            That's going to be energetically more efficient for you to do—

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            —than to think of it only as a big plan because, if you think of it only as a big plan, you're a fucking Aries. You've got that Mars/Jupiter—it just exhausts you.

BG:                 Yeah, it does.

Jessica:            You're just like, "Oh, I'm just crushed under the burden."

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            So it's better for you instead to bite-size pieces and then dessert, and then another bite-size piece and then dessert, because Venus—

BG:                 Yeah, I do agree with that.

Jessica:            Yeah. Venus/Saturn conjunction is not motivated by dessert. It's motivated by a job well done. And that's just one part of you. It's not all of you.

BG:                 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, yeah. Because I'm seen as somebody who's impulsive—and I think I am—people, including me, forget that there's a part of me that's deeply, deeply organized, for real, for real.

Jessica:            Yes.

BG:                 And so I think that's what's happened in the past year, is—when you talk about lots of projects, the side hustle of my company is this workshop. And I want it to be—I've organized one in December, and it really does feel like what you were saying. We have one coming up in May, and it really does feel like, "Oh, while this big project is building, I get to focus on something that's with my people."

Jessica:            Okay.

BG:                 So yeah.

Jessica:            Sorry. The workshop—I'm seeing it energetically.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            And it looks like you've built two really strong walls, and then one of the walls is all flopped out. So we have to talk about the workshop for a minute. Are you working on it with other people?

BG:                 I started working on it with another person last month. Yeah. Yes, ma'am.

Jessica:            And this other person—do they do what you do?

BG:                 Very similar career path, yeah.

Jessica:            And are the two of you cofacilitating this workshop?

BG:                 We would be, yes.

Jessica:            And do you have a contract?

BG:                 No.

Jessica:            I knew you didn't have a contract. When you paused and you're thinking about it, you did not have a contract. The two of you do not have an agreement. You have this great idea, and it is a great idea. But you need a contract.

BG:                 Okay. So that's a funny thing you're saying that. Okay. So, because I started doing these workshops like five years ago in 2020, it's kind of like they have their baby, I have my baby, and they're helping me out on this. There's been this little friction around their decision-making power on my projects. And so I have this agreement written out, but I just haven't sent it. So [crosstalk].

Jessica:            Okay. Listen, to me Aries. Listen to me, Aries.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            If you just send them an agreement, they're going to get defensive. I'm so glad we're talking about this because—sorry, are you laughing? Am I hearing you laugh?

BG:                 Yes, I am. I am.

Jessica:            Okay, because you have been there before.

BG:                 Yeah. Oh, yes, I have.

Jessica:            There's a number of things going on here. One is this is your pattern. You have this great idea with this friend and there's great energy, and then you do something. And then you're like, "Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. But it's like you're helping me with my thing." That's not how they say it at all. They do not see it as them helping you with your thing. They see it as you came to them and said, "Let's collaborate." And they heard "collaborate" as 50/50.

BG:                 Oh yeah, no.

Jessica:            And you meant 50/50 in the moment, but then, when thinking about it, you're like, "I'm asking for you to collaborate on a BG project as opposed to we are actually 50/50 meeting in the middle.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            And so this is your Venus in Pisces problem. You are such a fucking Aries, but then you're like, "But I don't want to say it, because if I say it, maybe it'll hurt their feelings."

BG:                 Yeah. It is true. It is a truth. And with this specific person, they've asked me specifically, do I want them in a supporting capacity or should we do the thing together? And I must have said something along the lines of, "Oh, yeah, we should definitely do this together. I want you to be part of this." And then, when I went home, I was like, I do want that, but not in a capacity that's like them getting to have decision-making power in everything.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm.

BG:                 So that's how I started writing the whole thing. And I do agree that that's a pattern.

Jessica:            Yeah.

BG:                 But I do think—

Jessica:            Did you send the email?

BG:                 No.

Jessica:            Did you tell them? No.

BG:                 So I told them.

Jessica:            Okay.

BG:                 I told them because I had this conversation with myself, and I was like, "Before giving them the letter, you should tell them, hey, I think it would be good to have an agreement.'"

Jessica:            Yeah.

BG:                 So, two weeks ago, I sent them an email being like, "Hey. I think we should have an agreement. I would be clear." And they said, "Yes. I think that's a great idea." So I think it's a matter of me being clear, but I'm not sure how to do it, you know?

Jessica:            I have so much to help you with.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            The first thing is, as your psychic, I'm going to say this person expects a contract of 50/50, okay—

BG:                 Oh no.

Jessica:            —because you did verbally communicate, "Yes. Let's do this together." So I think that it's going to be important before you send off that contract to, in a friend—so I'm going to call your workshop business BG, right? That's your name here on the podcast right now.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            So we're calling in BG. So I think it's going to be important for you to do one of two things. You can say—have this conversation over a coffee, over a drink, over a walk, in a friendly way.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            Or if you feel like, "I'm not going to ever say it to their face," say, "Hey. I have a business conversation to have with you, and I'm finding that I'm having a hard time bringing it up in person. It's not necessarily bad. It's just I'm not very direct. Are you cool with me sending you an email?" Okay? So you're free to do that. And if they say, "I would rather talk about it," then you're screwed and you gotta talk about it. But otherwise, you can speak about it on an email.

                        And this is what needs to be said. "I am so excited about working with you and about collaborating. And I realize that in my enthusiasm, I communicated that I was thinking of this as a 50/50 venture. But the truth is I have this established project already called BG. And so, if you're coming in to be a part of BG, it's not exactly 50/50 because I'm not giving you ownership of BG." And so you can then say, "If you would like to do a BG/new friend collaboration and call it that, we can explore that as an option. But the way I'm thinking of it now is you are coming in as a supportive role. And so, while I think of that as collaborative, it's not technically a collaboration in terms of it being 50/50." Does that make sense? Is that something you could say?

BG:                 No, I think they'd be okay with it. They verbalized that they could do either/or, and so—

Jessica:            So let me slow you down.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            They did verbalize that, but then you were like, "Yeah, let's just collaborate." And so I think that they've been operating off of an assumption that is different than the one that you have been. And this is part of the pattern that I'm trying to, a little bit, get in on, is that you've communicated everything all at once. You've communicated, "This is mine. This is ours. Let's do it together. It's mine."

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            So this person has heard what they've heard, and they have receipts. And you have said what you've said, and you have receipts. Neither of you are wrong, but there is a lack of clarity.

BG:                 Yes, I agree.

Jessica:            Yeah, and it comes from enthusiasm. You're not disingenuous. You're just like—when you're in the moment, you're like, "Fuck yeah. This is the moment." And then you come home, and you look at your inbox, and you look at all the shit you've done, and you're like, "Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait."

BG:                 I know. I do be doing that.

Jessica:            You do. You do. And so, if this is a friend, you can say, "Hey. I am learning, and this is what I've figured out about myself. I have given you a mixed message. I want to just own it. I want to communicate how this has taken shape for me, and I want to just reaffirm that clearly and make sure it's cool with you." And then, if they say, "Okay, cool. No problem," you can say, "Great. Then it's on me to send you a contract, and then we can communicate about it via email to make sure it feels good to both of us."

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            But if you just send the contract, they're going to be like, "The fuck? This is coming out of"—you know what I mean?

BG:                 I think that's why I didn't send it.

Jessica:            Yes. Yes. Yeah.

BG:                 So, yeah, I totally agree with you. Also, I have a call with them this week, so we could definitely talk about it then. But yeah, it is a pattern for me.

Jessica:            It is a pattern. So this is the thing about your Venus/Saturn conjunction, is that it's in Pisces. And so ownership is hard for you.

BG:                 As in it's hard for me to own my things?

Jessica:            It's hard for you to own your thing. Even though the rest of your chart is great at ownership, this is your Midheaven. Your Midheaven is your career. And it is hard for you to own that stuff. Do you have a name—don't say it out loud, but do you have a name for your workshop?

BG:                 Yeah, I have a name for my company and my workshop.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay.

BG:                 I do.

Jessica:            Your branding is loose. Was that rude? Was that true? What's happening? Tell me.

BG:                 No, no, no, no, no. No. It's loose—oh yeah, because you could—I'm actually—I'm laughing. My branding for the workshop or for the company?

Jessica:            Are they separate, or is the workshop an extension of the company?

BG:                 The workshop is an extension of the company.

Jessica:            Okay. So we're talking about the company.

BG:                 My branding is loose? How loose? What do you mean by that?

Jessica:            Okay. Say the name of the company.

BG:                 Okay. Company's name is [redacted]. The workshops is called [redacted].

Jessica:            So workshops are an established practice. You have a core audience for it.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            And you have a really strong energy around it.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            And then you have some form of aesthetic branding associated with that.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay.

BG:                 I do.

Jessica:            Great. Fine. Then there's this—the larger business. And the larger business—you have a really—a lot of exciting energy, but you don't have a committed structure.

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. And so the fact that you are connecting the business to the workshops places more pressure on the workshops, which are fine as they are.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            I would encourage you to think of them as separate—now, not separate as in not connected. But this business needs more clarity, intention, planning, structure, and the workshops don't.

BG:                 Yeah. The workshop already—they're ready to go.

Jessica:            Is what it is.

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            It's a stand-alone product.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            But if you connect them, you're placing this kind of Saturnian weight on these kind of light, fast-moving workshops.

BG:                 That's true. That's true. That's true.

Jessica:            So you're stealing from yourself, basically, is what you're doing.

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Cool, cool, cool.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            So maybe part of what you need to be thinking about, inspired by this relationship with this person, is, "Okay. If I work with other creatives"—so, right now, you're thinking about working with this particular creative in this particular way.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            But maybe you could pull in other creative people you know, maybe sometimes more businesspeople, people who do things that are really different than you. Maybe you can be offering more workshops, you know, a couple a year. It doesn't have to be all the time. Again, were talking about small projects.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            And if that's the case, then what does workshop company offer to the other creative people that you're working with? How can you think about collaborating and almost creating a boilerplate agreement that you could adapt but basically use for all the friends and creatives that you work with on this workshop/side hustle/passion project? This is twisting you up a little bit. Will you say the name of the person that you're going to be collaborating with?

BG:                 Oh my God. Their name is [redacted]. We started working together like a month and a half ago.

Jessica:            It's new.

BG:                 Yeah, it's very new. So it's important to talk about it now, but it's also very weird for me to—you know, I should really look at the relationship. You know what I mean? Because it feels good for now.

Jessica:            Oh. So you want to wait until it feels bad before you look at it. That's what it means to have an intercepted Moon. Okay. Okay. Let me run an intervention on you. When it feels good and when it's early is when you think about it. You don't wait till it—when you're like, "Oh shit. I should really consider this relationship and how effective it is."

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            There's a number of things happening here. One thing is that your Venus in Pisces is devotional.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            It's like, "If I like you, I believe in you. And if I believe in you, then whatever you tell me is true.

BG:                 Oh my God. Yes. And now I realize that it's not.

Jessica:            Of course not, just like everything you tell me is not true. It's like that's not how people work, right?

BG:                 Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            There's a way that you just don't want me to pop the bubble that you're holding around this person.

BG:                 Well, no, because I do think my intuition is telling me that there needs to be conversations because it is definitely a powerful relationship.

Jessica:            Yeah.

BG:                 We're definitely aligned. But there's both growth and tension in the relationship, I think.

Jessica:            There could be power struggles because you both want to be powerful, and not in a grossy way, but you both want to be powerful in your work and in your community—

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            —and in your outreach. And you aren't the same person, and you don't want the exact same things, and you don't have the exact same approach.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            And you're both not the greatest communicators in the world—no disrespect.

BG:                 That's true. That's true. No, no disrespect. No disrespect.

Jessica:            Yeah. You're good at talking, but not necessarily communicating about hard stuff like this. Do they listen to this podcast?

BG:                 I don't know.

Jessica:            Okay. Are they Queer?

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. So, depending on what kind of Gay they are, you may be able to say to them, "I got a reading with an astrologer, and the astrologer pointed out that I have this great creative projective with somebody and we're not doing a great job of communicating about expectations and boundaries. Okay. Let's giddyap. Let's go. Let's talk about it." And—

BG:                 I could do that.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. Great, great, great. This is the great gateway of communicating, as an astrologer told me.

BG:                 Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            So the thing that's really important in this—I haven't forgotten about looking at this person energetically—

BG:                 Okay.

Jessica:            —because you are showing me enough about you to see what needs attending here, right?

BG:     Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            So here's a fucked-up thing about partnerships. They're hard. You've got Uranus and Neptune in the seventh house. They both square your Sun. They both square your Mercury. And so, for you, you love falling in love with a new person, a new friend, a new creative partner, a new date. You're just obsessed with exciting new potential. But you tend to move so fast that things slip through the cracks a little bit, right?

BG:                 But I really try to slow down, though.

Jessica:            You're doing a great job. You're not doing a bad job. You're definitely not doing a bad job. It's kind of like this. We work within our nature, right? So it's not that you should all of a sudden become like a Taurus who moves slowly through all the things of the world—no disrespect to Taurus. Love a Taurus. But instead, it's about recognizing that part of how you partner with people is you love to run on vibes. You love to run on potential. And you don't love to walk on vibes. You love to run on vibes.

BG:                 I do.

Jessica:            Yeah.

BG:                 I do. I do.

Jessica:            And so, if we kind of take that, that awareness of you, and then we say, "Okay. But at the top of the chart, we have a Venus/Saturn conjunction"—so that's where you want to be like, "Okay. I love to fucking run on fumes, run on vibes. And I'm going to really check in with myself to make sure that I'm being consistent, that I'm offering what I can actually deliver and I'm asking for what I need."

BG:                 Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            That's in your nature, too.

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            But when you're running on vibes, you don't always remember that part until you're already midway through the relationship.

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            So between now and your 33rd year is a great time to be really incredibly intentional about this practice. And I know you wrote in to me about money. Make no mistake: we are talking about money, too—

BG:                 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jessica:            —because your ability to innovate and figure out this amazing new thing that you could do is so strong, but then the boring parts of compromise and reality and timing and all this shit—they can kind of catch you unawares because you're not focusing on that part, not because it's not in your nature, but because it's more of a boner killer.

BG:                 The boner killer is the partnership part?

Jessica:            The planning.

BG:                 The planning.

Jessica:            The acknowledging what could go wrong—Saturn. The acknowledging, "What are the very real limitations of this? What is the reality of this? Where do I have to compromise? Where are the scarcity bits, and are they a problem or not?" That part that comes—even when we discussed that project where you were working with somebody and they didn't pay you what expected, and some of this had to do with, probably, them being a jerk, but also communication and stuff like that—right?

BG:                 Communication. Communication. Yes. Yes, also.

Jessica:            Right. It was communication. So, because you were—

BG:                 Part of it was me. It wasn't only them, but the—

Jessica:            Yeah.

BG:                 —you know.

Jessica:            I get that. I get that. The way that this is really helpful to keep in mind—this is not about that situation. It's about that situation occurred during your Saturn Return, so we treat it as an archetypical way of understanding your patterns. So don't think about the person or the project or the details. Instead, okay, this pattern of—you went in being like, "This is going to be great. I'm going to fucking nail this"—and you did. You went in. It was great. You nailed it.

BG:                 I nailed it. I did.

Jessica:            You did. No, I see that. You did. But because you chose to focus on the potential and you didn't let yourself focus too much on the nitty-gritty, you got in trouble.

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            When I asked you to see your partner on this workshop project, you didn't want me to look at them because you didn't want me to look at the nitty-gritty, and you know me, and you know that I would.

BG:                 Well, I mean, I would—if you want to look at them, I'm not against it anymore, you know? It's like it took me by surprise.

Jessica:            I don't need to. I think we got what we needed out of it, luckily. The part that's important here is the you part. When we look to Venus in the birth chart, we are seeing relationships, but we're also seeing finances.

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah. That's true.

Jessica:            It's like what you own.

BG:                 That's true.

Jessica:            The reason why this is is because it's how you engage with what you value. That's your resources. That's your money. That's your relationships.

BG:                 The way that I relate to money is the same way that I relate to relationships. And I think, in the past year, I've tried to verbalize things more because it's like I think them really strongly in my head. I would say that I'm pretty straightforward, but I'm not consistent in my directness. It's not like I truly, fully hide. I think I really have a plan to say it, but when it comes out, either my issue is that I stay after communicating what didn't work or I don't communicate what is not working. I feel like that's where the lack of financial security and consistency in partnerships comes from.

Jessica:            So let me speak to something here, okay?

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            Chiron. You have Chiron at the bottom of your chart, and it sits opposite your Saturn. It sits opposite your Midheaven, and it sits opposite your Venus.

BG:                 Okay.

Jessica:            And so what this means in human form is you are perfectionistic. You're like, "My thoughts are intense. My thoughts are exacting." You are perfectionistic. You are demanding. You are to the letter in your thinking.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            But you're like, "That's wrong. That's bad," just like you feel that your strong emotions with your intercepted Scorpio Moon are wrong and bad. You were raised to just let things go. Just let it happen. And so what happens is you do think about it. You do think about it. Like you said, your thoughts are there. It's not like you're not thinking about shit.

BG:                 Right. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            But you do what happens with perfectionism. Either you completely give up—you're like, "Whatever. I can never fucking get it. Why bother?"—or you procrastinate. You're just like, "I'll put it off. I'll put it off. I'll put it off," which is why you mention something and, two weeks later, you haven't sent the email. Right?

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            It's because you're procrastinating it.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            Or—and this is, in a way—this is on the list, right, is that you're an Aries. So, sometimes, you just fucking say shit. You did not have a plan. You say more than you meant to say, and now you have to deal with the consequences. So I'm going to give you advice about how to deal with it.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            Do you write?

BG:                 I do.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. So I'm going to give you advice. You're going to write out two different versions of the same thing. The first version always has to be demanding, perfectionistic, uptight, rigid. It can be petty. You just write out all the thoughts. And then, in the same sitting—this has to be done in one sitting, so it's not like do one part now and do the other part later. Do it all at once to get the full benefit, okay?

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            The next thing you're going to write—and you don't want this to be too long. So it doesn't have to be perfect sentences. It can be like, "Fuck that." It's not for being read or shared with anyone.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            The second thing you're going to write is, "What are my needs?" The third thing you're going to write are, "What are my responsibilities?" You could do responsibilities first if that's easier. That part doesn't matter.

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Jessica:            And the reason why I'm encouraging you to do these three little writing chunks is because that Scorpio intercepted Moon is telling you, "Shove down those emotions." And so what happens is they get out of control, and they start leaking.

BG:                 Yeah, they do.

Jessica:            And that Virgo Chiron at the bottom of the chart—it expresses itself through thinking and communication. So, therefore, you tamp down on your communication, and sometimes your thinking, because Chiron is related to wounding because you think there's something wrong with it. What I'm saying is there's nothing wrong with it, and also, you need to work with it. So giving that Chiron in Virgo a fucking minute to just be too much, knowing that no one's going to read this—you know what I mean?

BG:                 Yeah. Oh yeah.

Jessica:            You burn it. It's fine. It will help you to get to clarity. It's like you're trying to see what's in your closet without first getting all the boxes away from in front of your closet.

BG:                 Yeah. I do that.

Jessica:            Yeah.

BG:                 You literally do that.

Jessica:            You literally do that. No, zero surprises. Zero surprises, because everything is equally weighted for you. And therefore, you end up being like, "Well, I can't organize anything because everything is important."

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            So expressing and owning the pettiest parts of your thoughts, the most perfectionistic parts of your thoughts, has to happen first; otherwise, you're not going to get to the clean, tidy, authentic stuff.

BG:                 Yes. Yeah. I feel like that's what I've been experiencing.

Jessica:            Yes.

BG:                 I have a rotating chore schedule where I actually just force myself to focus just on my closet.

Jessica:            I love that.

BG:                 But it's also like—

Jessica:            Is it fun, ever?

BG:                 It's—low key, it's fun because it allows me to go deep into this one thing, so—

Jessica:            Yeah.

BG:                 —yeah. The perfectionistic—and also, whenever I get in relationships and partnerships where I get a little flustered or confused, I've found that, actually, being really petty and uptight is really, really, really helpful. So what I used to do my whole life is just—like the petty, demanding part, communicating it to others. So, now that I communicate it to myself first, I'm much—

Jessica:            Then you get to be more intentional, right?

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Then you get to actually be like, "Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute."

BG:                 Yeah. Oh yeah.

Jessica:            I want to just add something. Do you listen to music when you do the closet project?

BG:                 Sometimes.

Jessica:            I want to encourage you to try listening to music because, if you're dancing while you do it, you'll have more fun and it'll be easier for you.

BG:                 Okay. Yeah.

Jessica:            Do you dance a lot?

BG:                 I do. I like dancing.

Jessica:            Dancing is so good for you. It's that Jupiter/Mars trine. It's just like shaking what you were given. You know what I'm saying?

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            I said it weird, but you understand what I mean.

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            Jupiter/Mars loves to dance. So, if you're doing fucking seven million dishes piled up or you're getting to your closet or whatever, putting on music that turns it into a mini-party energy in your body will really help you to have a positive association with that task, you know?

BG:                 Yeah. That's true.

Jessica:            Yeah. I would encourage you to fuck with that. See how that feels very different than watching TV or having silence or scrolling through social media or the other ways we kind of do that. Music is the thing for you.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            And then the other thing I want to say—money. Money is hard. Money is hard for everybody.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            I mean, I suppose those who are independently wealthy and don't have to earn money to have money—maybe it's not that hard for them. But it's hard. I am going to give you the homework of clarifying your intention about what you want because you are of many minds about money. How much money is enough money? How much money is not enough money? How much money makes you an asshole? Are there particular ways you're allowed to earn money that are more integrity, less integrity?

                        I see, again, there's so many ideas that it's fuzzing up your ability to manifest things because you're really good at that, right?

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            Sometimes you just fucking manifest shit.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            But it's not working with money because you have too many mixed ideas and feelings about it.

BG:                 Yeah, I do. I'm just recently starting to understand that money is just a tool and a vessel. I was very much raised in a culture where money is the source of all evil, and if you want or have money, you're also part of the problem. And again, past few years healed that part a little bit. It's funny that you say clarity because it feels clear energetically to me. In my body, it feels very clear that I want enough money to create wealth in a way that helps folks in my community and me.  I want to create infrastructures. I don't want a 9:00 to 5:00. I don't want—

Jessica:            But what's the dollar amount?

BG:                 Oh.

Jessica:            See, this is where your Pisces is showing. What's the dollar amount of—let's say in annual earnings.

BG:                 Annual, right now, I've figured out that I need—

Jessica:            No, how much do you want?

BG:                 How much do I want?

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. You just said, "I'm okay with abundance, and I want enough to have infrastructure for my communities and all this stuff." And I kind of stopped you from continuing to communicate that to me, and intercepted it with the question, "What's the number?" We're talking about money. Money is numbers.

BG:                 So, if I really want to do what I want to do, I need like 7,000 a month.

Jessica:            Which is how much a year? Do we know?

BG:                 I think it's around—it's one of the 100ks, you know, a year.

Jessica:            Let me check. 7,000—this is—maybe it's embarrassing, but I'm not going to choose to be embarrassed—84,000 a year, 7,000 a month. So are you talking about $7,000 a month after taxes or before?

BG:                 After taxes. After taxes.

Jessica:            Okay. So you have to make around 100,000.

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. So does that make you uncomfortable to say out loud?

BG:                 I mean, yeah, a little bit, for sure.

Jessica:            Okay. Cool.

BG:                 I think it's a lot of money.

Jessica:            Okay. Listen. I'm going to slow you down. I'm going to slow you down.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            It's a lot of money, and also, we can talk about capitalism. We can talk about the ethics of money. We can talk about a million different things. But when we're speaking to your ability to just manifest things, you're really good at manifesting projects that are exciting because you don't have mixed feelings about it.

BG:                 I see.

Jessica:            When you say the number 80,000, when you say the number 100,000, oh my God, it's like you split into many pieces. You're not whole. You feel mixed about it. You want to defend it.

BG:                 I do.

Jessica:            You want to explore it. You want to understand it. You want to—

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            —"But I'll give it away, and I'll do this, and I'll do that."

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            So there's a lack of cohesive resonance there. And listen. I am with you. Money is energy. Also, money is reality, right?

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            In late-stage capitalism, money is what fucking money is. And also, all matter is vibration, and all vibration can be played with, right?

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            So this is the issue with you having all this Pisces energy at the top of the chart related to your finances, is that if you're comfortable with money on an energetic level but not a materialistic capital level, then it's going to be hard to fill your bag and not have it drain immediately, right?

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            So there is something really important about exploring the boundaries of your comfort and whether they're about old beliefs that you don't agree with, whether they're about your true values and ethics, whether they're about just your discomfort because you haven't spent enough time hanging out in this space, really exploring the hard number—

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            I'll tell you this. I've done a lot of readings about money over the course of my career. And for everyone who's not a hard and fast capitalist, everybody has the same reaction as you do to me asking for a number. It's like, "I don't want to give you a number. Why a number? Let's not put numbers on money." Like it's a very normal thing, for those of us who are not super capitalistic, to have that feeling. And I can also say and it kind of tends to show, right?

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            So I want to be really clear and careful. I'm not in any way trying to manifest or thoughts-and-prayers capitalism. That's not realistic, right?

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Jessica:            But you hear what I'm saying, right? It's about working with what you can work with, which is clarity of intention, creating a plan, being clear-minded about what you're trying to call in.

BG:                 And you know what? I think that's why the energy is gathered around money, because I go back and forth between, "This is what I want, but is it just out of reach?" You know what I mean?

Jessica:            Mm-hmm.

BG:                 And so I think maybe this is the first year that I'm actually really breaking down the numbers and creating the plan for it. And there's a lot of shame around, well, not having it figured out. And so I just feel like I want it to be a normal thing. I want to get to a point in my life where money is not—it doesn't mean that I'm rich, but it's like money is like a tool, a normal part of life, and I have food in my fridge, and I have a roof over my head, and I'm not worrying about rent. And—

Jessica:            So I have to interrupt you with that because you could be making $100,000 a year and easily worry about money.

BG:                 Right.

Jessica:            You could be making $400,000 a year and be worried about money.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            I know this because I have met countless people over the course of my lifetime who have significantly more than $100,000 a year, and their expenses are also great.

BG:                 Right. Right. Right.

Jessica:            Or something fucking happens—or, or, or, or. What I'm trying to say is there's not a magic number where you stop worrying about money.

BG:                 Right. Okay. That makes sense.

Jessica:            There's not a magic number that will make you comfortable with capitalism and your role inside of it unless you're at the bottom.

BG:                 Yes. I can be comfortable, but there's a part of me where, all throughout my life, I've asked myself if it was like—because you know you have the word [persona 00:51:41] in the initial letter? Because I really—sometimes I'm like, "Whoa. It's so hard. Is it something that I'm destined to experience?" Like it's just something that I can't fight. You know what I mean? Like it's just going to be hard.

Jessica:            Okay. So here's the good news. Here's the good news. You could totally build wealth in this life if you want to.

BG:                 Okay.

Jessica:            Totally. Yes. Absolutely. I'm not worried about that for you.

BG:                 Okay. Okay.

Jessica:            And this is like a very woo thing, but you're with me on the woo.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            So you are not in alignment with abundance financially.

BG:                 Oh my God.

Jessica:            You have such mixed feelings about it.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            And so what you're manifesting reflects that, in a way, right? It's like you have come across cash, and then it gets pulled away or there's an expense right away. Right?

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And in a way, it justifies something that's unconscious inside of you. It justifies, like, "Okay. Well, I made this big chunk of money, but then I had to give it away," or, "Then this terrible thing happened."

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            It's like you're manifesting evidence. Sorry. I'm going to make you say your full name out loud for me.

BG:                 Yes. [redacted].

Jessica:            Okay. I'm going to give you a couple pieces of homework.

BG:                 Okay.

Jessica:            Here's one. Do you ever fuck with Canva or one of those kinds of—

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Canva. Great. So take a screenshot of your savings and your checking. Do you have a savings account?

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. So, in your savings, $100,000.

BG:     Okay.

Jessica:            I ask the Tarot what to do, okay? So just—

BG:     100k. Yeah.

Jessica:            That's what you're putting in there.

BG:     Yeah.

Jessica:            In your checking—how much is in your checking?

BG:     Oh.

Jessica:            We're just talking fantasy. We're talking like, what's an ideal number? Do I think you should have $100,000 sitting in your savings account? No, I don't. No, I don't.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            But that's not what this is. This is—

BG:                 In my checking, I mean, I would feel comfortable—$20,000.

Jessica:            That's the number I saw, too. Okay. Good. I'm so glad. 20,000. Great. Okay. And I want you to notice, as I'm talking to you about this, I don't have any judgment one direction or another.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            I hope you can feel that, because I want you to notice what it's like to not hold a judgment to the money one way or another, not that it's too much or it's too little or it's bad or it's good. It's just fucking—we're literally going into an app and just taking your—okay. So you're going to have a picture. It's going to say you have 20,000 in your checking and 100,000 in your savings. And I'm giving you this piece of homework. You're going to save it so that it—in your phone, in your photos, so that it—make it one of your favorite photos. I want you to look at that every day and notice what it brings up.

BG:                 Right.

Jessica:            I just want you to get used to big numbers. That's all.

BG:                 That's very interesting. Yeah.

Jessica:            It's just like a creative process of engaging with the idea of numbers, which is money, right?

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And you can apply this, my Venus in Pisces friend—you can apply this to—let's say you're trying to—I don't know—earn a certain amount of money on the workshop you're going to be giving. You can be like, "Okay." Take the snapshot of your checking account or your business account if you have one, and say, "Okay. I'm going to make x amount of dollars," and put those dollars in your account. It's already there. Every time you look at the photo, you're like, "This is in my account. I am comfortable with this. I earned this. This is what I have. This is what I'm holding. Am I comfortable holding that much weight?"

                        I don't know if you know this, but there's a thing that's becoming really popular is wearing weighted vests, weighted pants. It's for bone density and stuff like that.

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. So carrying weight builds bones. It's fucking interesting because Saturn governs bones, right?

BG:                 Okay. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Weight is not bad, and weight is not good. It's about how you carry it.

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            That's what we want to hold. So this is an exercise in exploring how it feels to carry the weight, okay?

BG:                 Okay.

Jessica:            So that's one exercise you're going to do. Another thing I want to encourage you to do—energy is energy. You know how to work with energy. You like energy, yeah?

BG:                 I do. I do.

Jessica:            You do. I see that. Okay. So I'm giving you another writing exercise.

BG:                 Okay.

Jessica:            A bit of homework. Money is many things. You might need to do a small writing exercise on what even is money.

BG:                 Okay.

Jessica:            Is money a reflection of value? Is money a tool? What is money? Right?

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            So maybe you need to do a teeny bit of writing on what the fuck is money. And then what I want to encourage you to do is write short notes to money, like tweets. You know what I mean?

BG:                 Okay.

Jessica:            It doesn't have to be too laborious.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            I know that you can be wordy. This is why I'm saying you want to keep it a little succinct.

BG:                 No, you're right. You're right.

Jessica:            I see. I see you. I see you. So, "Hey, money. How's it going today? I'm feeling really worried about you today, but I hope you have a good day." "Hey, money. I know you have a total crush on me and you want to be as close to me as you possibly can, but I'm feeling weird about it, so I actually am not comfortable with money today." Talk to it—

BG:                 Damn. Yeah.

Jessica:            —as an energetic flow and something that you can be in active relationship with.

BG:                 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. What you will find is that, at this time, you have an anxious, avoidant relationship with money.

BG:                 Oh. Well, [crosstalk].

Jessica:            But that's okay.

BG:                 I do.

Jessica:            You just need to go on some dates. You need to be texting. You need to get to know each other. It'll grow.

BG:                 Yeah. That's true.

Jessica:            Within this, it's important to remember that all relationships need boundaries. And so you might establish for yourself, "Okay. For me, I want to always be in conversation with myself about the line between abundance and hoarding."

BG:                 Yes. Absolutely.

Jessica:            "I always want to be in conversation with myself about my motives and how much flow I'm maintaining with my resources so it doesn't pool up and start to feel like I'm doing something evil or unethical with my money," right?

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            Being intentional, talking to the concept of money—because money is just a concept, really, right? This will help you to stay in correct relationship with money. Even this—something I just said— I don't know what it was, but something I just said just kind of shifted something inside of you. And you were like, "Oh, right, I get to just decide how to be in relationship with money."

BG:                 Yeah, like money is not embodied, I was going to say. It's not intangible. I guess I have a hard time with—I've been thinking about the fact that we live in a world where physical dollar bills are just not a thing anymore, and just what you said around feeling the bag also is—I need to see things to understand them, and so imagine it as a flow and as something that I have a relationship with rather than the sky falling over my head is—

Jessica:            Yeah.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            I think that most of us who aren't from inherited wealth have this relationship to money where it's like it's our overseer. It has control over us.

BG:                 Yes. Yes. Yes, yes.

Jessica:            And there is a level upon which that is fucking real. And then there is a level upon which, if you make a decision to reorient your relationship to it, it really works. So hold on. Let me just see. The judgments that you have, some of which come from your politic and your values and some of which come from your family members and the culture that you were raised in—and sometimes there's an overlap between those things; sometimes there isn't. None of that inherently needs to change, but all of that needs a revisitation from you as the adult you've become.

BG:                 That's true.

Jessica:            Yeah. And this will help you to clear out your head so there's a solid channel between you and your ability to get compensated abundantly for your labor. And abundance is not excess. It can be, but it's not inherently excess. And abundance is not hoarding. It can lead to hoarding, but it's not inherently hoarding.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            So it's really important that you kind of take some of the sting out of abundance because I see that there's some sting in there for you.

BG:                 I think the sting is like—I don't know if that's going to make sense, but hoarding is not the issue for me. I compulsively need to declutter. I get rid of my stuff. And so money is the same. There's like a—

Jessica:            Like a compulsion to get rid of things.

BG:                 Yes. Yeah. So—

Jessica:            So I would suggest that is a reaction to a fear of hoarding.

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            Right?

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            So I would say that you're overcompensating for a terror that you're going to become like a money monster that holds on to things.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            This idea that money is inherently corrupting I take issue with. I don't agree with it.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            I do think there is a number—and it's a different number for different people, but there is a certain amount where it's like, okay, this is no longer abundance; this is hoarding.

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            But 100,000 is nowhere near it. When we talk about eating the rich, we are not talking about people who make 700,000.

BG:                 Right.

Jessica:            That's not the kind of wealth that is inherently corrupting. That's a much crazier number that is inherently corrupting. Now, that said, money does change people's values. It does.

BG:                 Yeah. It does.

Jessica:            It can. But this is the thing. Let me reframe that. It's not that it does, as it does for a lot of people. It doesn't for everybody. And it doesn't have to for you.

BG:                 Yeah. I think it's so close to me, like it's so much part of my personal history, and it's not that people have hoarded, but they've had this compulsive, like—lots of money, no money at all, or just—

Jessica:            High/low.

BG:                 —high/low, high/low, high/low, on one part of my family. And on the other part, it was like working slowly but surely. So there's like—who I grew up with is the high/low, high/low.

Jessica:            Yeah.

BG:                 And so I feel like I know what it looks like to be obsessed with money and to just focus on that and not the people around you, and to just think that—not believe in God and believe in money, like money is your god.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm.

BG:                 So—and it doesn't even equate to you having lots of money in the bank. You know what I mean?

Jessica:            Totally.

BG:                 It's like it's not even—you're not even financially secure. You're just energetically obsessed with it.

Jessica:            Yep.

BG:                 And so, yeah, I think that's why I have a reaction to that where I'm very deeply not wanting to—

Jessica:            Right.

BG:                 Like, wanting to find balance in that. And you're right in revisiting that because I've always had a very, like, "I don't want to make money." I really don't.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. I get that. I get it.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            And also, it's not true anymore.

BG:                 Yeah. No. Yeah.

Jessica:            It's just not true anymore. And you don't have a high/low birth chart, but you do have these very different parts of your nature around money, and it can end up kind of looking high/low, right?

BG:                 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            But not as high highs and not as low lows.

BG:                 Yeah. Right.

Jessica:            But that's honestly not your fate.

BG:                 Right. Good to know.

Jessica:            It's you not being intentional enough.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            So it's you—because you're sidestepping your comfort with abundance, and therefore, it's just hanging out there unexplored, unexpressed, unembodied.

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And so that's the work. And the good news is I want you to notice the kind of homework I gave you.

BG:                 Yes.

Jessica:            It's not super linear, and it's not about working harder or working smarter. It's about getting more, on the unconscious and emotional level, comfortable with certain numbers and with your ideas so that you can better communicate energetically to creative partners, to yourself. Right?

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            That's really been the theme here.

BG:                 Yeah. That's real.

Jessica:            And what it will require is that you sit with really uncomfortable thoughts and feelings. And this is like a new thing for you, but—it's not brand new, but it's like you're deepening this habit.

BG:                 Yeah. Absolutely.

Jessica:            And so I want to just say stay with this work. It's uncomfortable. It's a pain in the ass. But it's the right work. It's the right work.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            Now, did we answer your question? Is there anything kind of lingering?

BG:                 Oh, I mean, I think there's lots of questions that have been answered I didn't even ask. So that's great.

Jessica:            Yay.

BG:                 I had this question in my head around, should I keep applying to these 9:00-to-5:00s? And so I really appreciate the answer around the pressure-based part because it really feels aligned, but in this economy, sometimes you feel like, well, you know, this—sometimes I gotta do what I gotta do, you know?

Jessica:            And that's important, right? I want to say there's the ideal—ideally, you're working through projects. And if you're like, "Shit. I need a fucking job right now," then that's the compromise. But it's good to remember, "Okay. I'm making a compromise. I don't have to like this. I'm just doing this because I need money right now."

BG:                 Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            And that's really different than being like, "Okay. Now I have to want this." You don't have to want it.

BG:                 Right.

Jessica:            You can drag your feet. It's okay. You know what I mean?

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

BG:                 Yeah. No, so it makes a lot of sense, and then I had a question around—because it does feel like a curse, so the fact that it's just like the struggle until 33, which is like a random—it's not random, but the idea—

Jessica:            Yeah. To a non-astrologer, it's super random. Yeah.

BG:                 But it's like sometimes it's like I'm a child. If I don't know where I'm going, I'm not going to want to go out of the house. So it feels good to know these are the boundaries of the struggle. And so, no, I feel like—

Jessica:            Good. I'm so glad to hear that. The homework I've given you about money will help the career, and it'll help you better either—I think it's really about embodying the potential of what you're building because, right now, you're hanging out around it more than embodying it wholly. And this is more because of, actually, a fear of success. It's not a fear of failure. It's a fear of success because, if you are successful, then you'll make a lot of money. And then, what, are you automatically a bad person?

BG:                 Well, yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. I know. I know. And I mean, honestly, it's such a big thing to struggle with, but also, it sounds ridiculous when we say it, right?

BG:                 Right.

Jessica:            Yeah.

BG:                 Yeah. I just don't want to lose myself in the process. And I think it's just folks that I have around me and what I do it for that are going to help me stay grounded.

Jessica:            Yeah.

BG:                 Yeah. That's it.

Jessica:            I think—and okay. So let me just say this kind of final thing to that, which is getting comfortable with money, making sure that you're living in accordance with your values and you're not letting it—power or money—to corrupt you, it's a commitment to an ongoing conversation. And I think what a lot of us do who have that ethic or that politic is we avoid the conversation because we're so scared of being secretly a monster inside because we see how corrupting money can be.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            But the way to avoid slipping into the holes that capitalism is just like, "Here, fall in this hole and become a jerk," is by being intentional and being in conversation where it is—

BG:                 Literally what I need to do. Okay.

Jessica:            That's just literally it. And so the writing exercise that I gave you about the perfectionism, the rights, responsibilities—that will also help in your relationship to money, right?

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            It's about being in an active conversation that is not based on good or bad, but it's based on, "Is this in accord with my values? Is it outside of my values?" That's going to take you much further in life because good and bad—it's moralistic. It's judging. And it's not that there isn't things that are good and bad, but that's not what this conversation is about, right?

BG:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            This is more, "Is it consistent with my values? Have I stepped outside of my politic in order to make this money or hold on to this money?" You can think of this as—as you're building your relationship to money, as an ongoing daily/weekly conversation you have with yourself.

BG:                 That's true.

Jessica:            And then, as you expand and you inhabit clarity, it can be something you check in with once a quarter, once a month.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            It doesn't have to be a daily. But just like building any relationship, you want to give it space to ebb and flow.

BG:                 That makes sense.

Jessica:            Stay healthy. That's the move.

BG:                 But I think that the ongoing conversation is very—so it's like I don't have to have all the answers now.

Jessica:            Yes. Yes.

BG:                 And so yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

BG:                 Thanks for that. I appreciate that.

Jessica:            My pleasure. And I'm going to just say I love that your goal is 100,000, and I don't think in your goal you're saving money for retirement.

BG:                 I'm not.

Jessica:            So I don't think it's a big enough goal.

BG:                 It's not big enough.

Jessica:            It's not. It was just too small of a number.

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            And so that's okay. You know what I mean? Start where you're comfortable. Expand from there, because a lot of times, when people are uncomfortable with making money, we don't think about retirement. We don't think about, "Oh shit, but I have to pay for my own medical insurance. Okay. let me add that on." Right?

BG:                 Yeah.

Jessica:            There's layers. And so you just want to work on being adaptable and actively engaged. That's the move here. Adaptable and actively engaged.

BG:                 And actively engaged.

Jessica:            Yeah. Instead of avoidant and like, "This is the number. This is the place. This is the thing I shouldn't do," or, "This is the thing I should do," it's adaptable and actively engaged.

BG:                 Yeah. This is how I want to live my life.

Jessica:            Yes. That makes me so happy to hear. That makes me so happy to hear.

BG:                 I appreciate it.

Jessica:            It is so my pleasure. Take really good care of yourself, and be patient in this process. But stay active in it.