Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Jessica:            Scroll Troll, Banana—

Banana:           Hello.

Jessica:            Welcome to the podcast. What would you like to do a reading about?

Banana:           Well, I sent in a question, and it goes like this. "Dear Jessica, I get lost in hour-long scrolling sessions that can happen at any time of day and any platform available. I've set up apps to prevent this, but I still somehow find myself scrolling, losing track of time, and feeling out of control. I'm an Indigenous artist and researcher working with deconstructing capitalist mindsets and pride myself in following my intuition when it comes to the work I do, but the scrolling is really messing with my flow and sense of self. Can my chart help me figure out what I'm supposed to learn from this?"

Jessica:            Yes. It's such a great question. You titled it Scroll Troll, and I was instantly like, "Oh my God. I'm a scroll troll, too." I think it's such a good term, unfortunately. So I have a question before we pull up your birth chart and we dive in. And the question is, if you're hanging out with people, do you grab your phone and scroll?

Banana:           I don't scroll, but I do check it.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And are you checking texts and emails, or are you checking notifications from apps?

Banana:           Notifications, everything. Yeah.

Jessica:            You're checking everything.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And then are you doing this once a day, all day, every day, most—do you have a sense of that?

Banana:           Yeah. I think it can happen most days. Yeah, it can happen most days.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. We're going to pull up your chart.

Banana:           Okay.

Jessica:            Do you want to share your birth info with folks?

Banana:           So I was born 9th of July, 1992, in Oslo, Norway, which is also called Sápmi in Sámi, which is my language.

Jessica:            Okay. And you were born at 4:58 a.m.?

Banana:           Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. So the main question you're asking is kind of how do you use your birth chart to understand why you do it, or is it to understand how to stop, or both?

Banana:           Both.

Jessica:            Okay. Great.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            So let's start with why. Okay. You have this complex Grand Cross in your chart. You've got the Moon and Pluto almost conjunct each other, but given the rest of your chart, I'm going to kind of be like, okay, they're conjunct; it's close. It's close. We've got the Moon square to Mercury. We've got the Moon and Pluto square to Saturn. We've got Saturn opposite Mercury. And then everybody in the mix is fucking with Mars. We've got Mercury and Saturn square Mars, and then we've got Pluto and Moon opposite Mars.

                        So, in English, you run such intense energy through your body. You feel emotionally, mentally, and physically so much all the time.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. And because Pluto and Saturn are involved, there is a meaningful part of this that is related to your survival mechanisms, right? Your fight or flight, your sense of, "I am responsible to shape reality"—Saturn. "I have to do something. What am I going to do? Why aren't I doing enough? Why did I do it that way?"—that whole fucking heavy-handed Saturn shit, right?

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            So all of that is happening, and then Pluto is there. So Pluto is just like, "More. Deeper. Harder." Right? It's flight, fight. It's flight, fight, or fawn. And then, because Mars is involved, it runs through your body. Because Mercury is involved, it engages your mind. And because the Moon is involved, you are emo. You feel your feelings. Plus you're a double fucking Cancer, Sun and Rising in Cancer. So all of this to say that you experience a huge amount of stimulation, even if you're sitting alone with trees, right?

Banana:           Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            It's not chill. It's not chill. You're not the most chill in the world. And let's just take a moment to say chill is overrated. I think chill is overrated. I think chill is great if you've got it, and you have parts of your nature that can be quite chill. But this part of you—it's a really big part of you. It's a part that is in an ongoing mental, emotional, and sensory conversation with yourself about what you're doing, whether or not it's good enough, how it's landing, how it should have gone, how it'll impact the future—I mean, oh my fucking God. I mean, oh my God. It's a lot. It's a lot.

                        And a huge part of what you've come here on a soul level to figure out is how to navigate that through your day-to-day habits that are sustainable and affirming for your body. And so, in the short term, you have a feeling. You have a strong thought. Grab your phone. Doom scroll—because what the scrolling does is it's like thoughts, ideas, calm, laughter, inspiration, fear, terror, hope—okay, inspiration, aesthetic, deep. It goes to all the places all at once.

And so, in a way, it's like this externalization of a process that feels really out of control inside of you, but because it's other people and it's other things, in a way, it's that homeopathic thing. It's like people who shouldn't eat cheese all the time. It's kind of like that, like you're gravitating towards something that objectively does not make you feel better, but it takes the focus away from feelings you don't know how to deal with.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And it puts something else in its place. So it's like getting your ears pierced because you have chronic migraines. I mean, it works for a couple minutes. It works. And that's the thing we want to validate, that it would be disingenuous for us to say that scrolling doesn't make you feel better and doesn't have utility. There's things that are good about it, right? I'm assuming you don't just scroll through mindless things that don't inspire you, right? You do pursue education. You do pursue connection. You do pursue art and creativity through the scroll.

Banana:           I mean, that's the weird thing, is that I scroll anything.

Jessica:            Anything.

Banana:           Like, anything.

Jessica:            Whatever serves you. Whatever serves.

Banana:           Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Oh shit. Okay. And then you feel bad after you're done?

Banana:           Terrible.

Jessica:            You're in a shame spiral now.

Banana:           So bad. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. This is important. I wouldn't have assumed a shame spiral afterwards until you told me you scroll through anything, because you are so opinionated; are you not?

Banana:           Yes.

Jessica:            Like, so opinionated. And so, if you're just eating whatever internet slop you're being served, that means you're abandoning yourself and on a much deeper level than I thought.

Banana:           Yep.

Jessica:            Okay. Cool. Okay. Cool. Cool, cool, cool, cool. So let's hang out with this question for a minute. What are you getting out of abandoning yourself? Because you're getting something out of it.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            I'm going to have you say your full name out loud for me.

Banana:           [redacted].

Jessica:            Okay. Are you missing another name? Are you a singer?

Banana:           I'm a singer. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Do you have a singer voice, like a singer name?

Banana:           I have a joik. In Sámi tradition, it's almost like your name.

Jessica:            Can I hear that?

Banana:           Oh my God. Okay. (sings)

                        Is that good?

Jessica:            It's beautiful. Yeah. Thank you. Oh shit, man. This is much more complicated than I thought it would be. Okay. Do you do healing work as well?

Banana:           Yeah, in a way.

Jessica:            Yeah, in a way. Is it part of an ancestral lineage? Is it something that you've been taught?

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            But you don't really want to do it; you want your life to be a little bit more easeful? You don't want to do it? Is that correct? Am I seeing that right?

Banana:           I think I'm resisting it a little bit because I have so many things I want to do.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. And it feels like, when you're alone with yourself, you are tapped in not only to the world but also to this lineage. I personally have never seen it before. You obviously know what it is. But you are tapped into this lineage of healers and creators that have a strong relationship to suffering and death?

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. So I'm going to slow myself down. I just—I got flooded, when I got your name, with a lot of energetic information. And as I started to say it out loud to you, I could feel what happens inside of you around the pressure of having to be a particular way instead of feeling completely free to choose how you want to be.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            It's like this heaviness just—it's just like it doesn't feel like a heaviness on you; it feels like a heaviness in you gets heavier. I mean, this is exactly the kind of feeling that would make a person want to grab their phone and scroll. It's this feeling of like, "Fuck. I'm just trapped no matter what I do." It's like "What's the point?" kind of a feeling. Am I seeing this correctly?

Banana:           Yeah. I think so.

Jessica:            And do you also have a dance practice?

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            What I'm seeing is that when you're actively engaged in your dance and singing practice, you're not scrolling. I mean, not zero percent, but not as much.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            It's because it's what you are being guided to do, and so you feel a sense of release. Okay. This is what I'm being shown. It's like you're in this conscious relationship with nature. That's how you live. But the wind is pushing at you to go this way, and you're like, "Nope. No, no, no. I'm going this way." And so the wind is at your face, and it's harder to breathe, and it's harder to get anywhere because you're pushing against this wind that is trying to get you to turn and go in a different direction. I feels deeply fucking elemental to me. And even as I say this, again, it brings up that weight because it's a lack of freedom. It's this feeling that you're being pushed to be somewhere as opposed to choosing it.

                        Okay. This is not what I thought we were going to talk about because I thought we were just going to talk about the phone and anxiety. But this is meaningfully about your art practice. It's not exactly art practice. It looks like the healing practice and the art practice are kind of the same thing.

Banana:           Mm-hmm. That's true.

Jessica:            Okay. And what do you do? And I don't mean what job do you have, although maybe that's part of what you do. But what do you do with your time?

Banana:           So I am currently doing a PhD on sustainability and Sámi knowledge and through art. And so it's like research with art as a practice. And I'm using a traditional form of singing, which also is a part of healing.

Jessica:            It is a huge part of healing. Okay. I'm just going to tell you what I'm seeing, and you tell me if it's correct. You have such a strong sense of fate. It's not from your head. You can feel it in your body. There's something pushing you to live up to, embody, and practice something that is really meaningful. And it requires you to have such a deep and meaningful relationship with yourself.

And this is not just about escape. Listen. I want to escape. You want to escape. Everybody listening to this wants to escape. That's like—sure. I mean, that's why they invented the scroll phone, right? But that's actually—there's something on another level happening here for you because you have the sense of fate, responsibility, meaning, and you are ambiguous. You are not sure what you want to do with it. There are moments where it feels like a gift. There are moments when it feels like a burden. And there are moments when you don't believe that it's a thing at all; you think, "Oh, it's fantasy. It's imagination. It's not real." There's other moments where you know it's real.

Part of what you're doing when you're scrolling—you're not curating your feed, right? You're just letting the internet serve you whatever?

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            Which is interesting. It's a weird thing to do, right? Because I do a lot of scrolling, but I'm really intentional about, if I don't like something, I scroll really quick so that the internet doesn't show it to me again. There's easy ways to kind of curate your feed. But you're not doing that. You're just kind of letting it happen at you.

Banana:           It feels like self-harm.

Jessica:            Yes. It feels like self-harm—

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            —which is not exactly—it is escape, but it's escape to a terrible place that you have to recover from.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And this—what you are getting out of it—so we're coming back to this question, what are you getting out of it? It's easier to let the world shit on you than to make a choice. That's what you're getting out of it right now.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And this is a really old habit for you. It's like, since your Saturn Return—and I don't know if that happens to also be since the PhD.  I don't know what the timeline is on those two things.

Banana:           I just started, or I'm one year into my PhD.

Jessica:            A year ago was—where are we? We're April 2026, so April 2025, Neptune activated your nodes.

Banana:           Okay.

Jessica:            And the nodes are not planets. We don't look at transits to them in the same way we would with planets. I think a lot of people could go through this transit and not really notice it, and for you, I think it's like a hurricane. Lucky you. But what's happening is something got stimulated.

It kind of started in the summer of 2024, but it really kicked in in the spring of 2025. What it is that happened was, as Neptune activated those nodes, your call to live in spiritual accord with yourself—it's like the volume got turned up on that call. It really got turned up.

                        So what did you do? You did what anyone with the South Node in the twelfth house in Cancer would do. You lied in bed and scrolled on your phone. Your bed is the place; am I right? The bed is the place?

Banana:           Yep.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. South Node in Cancer, man. It's the bed. Okay. That level of escapism is an emotional reaction to Neptune triggering your North Node in Capricorn in the sixth. That is such a "I need to take responsibility for my life. I need to develop healthy habits" placement. It's not the sexiest thing in town.

Banana:           Oh my God. It's the worst.

Jessica:            You hate it. You super fucking hate it.

Banana:           I do.

Jessica:            I know. I'm so sorry. I, of course, kind of like that stuff because I'm a triple Capricorn, and I'm an old bitch. But I see your Saturn, and your Saturn is square to Mars. And so there's this part of you that, any time there's a should—"I should put my phone down. I should drink more water. I should do this thing that I love"—as soon as that "should" comes in, your Mars is like, "Fuck that. Why should I do that? Why would I do what I should do? That's a burden."

                        And then Mercury comes online because Mercury is involved. And Mercury is like, "Story, story, story, story, story, story, story." And so the work for you is not to figure out what you should and shouldn't do but instead to be curious about how you can nurture the life you have, how you can nurture the body you have, how you can nurture the moment you're in, because sometimes the best thing to do is fucking scroll in your bed. We don't want to throw out that coping mechanism, because if you throw it away, Saturn will be like, "Fuck this shit," and Mars will be like, "Fuck this shit." And then you won't do anything.

                        So you want to be able to give yourself leeway to say, "Scrolling, on its own, is not going to ruin my life. Scrolling without any other coping mechanisms is a problem. Scrolling through slop is a problem," because you could be following thought leaders and artists and people who camp all the time and take ridiculous photos, and it would kind of fill you up, even when you were like, "This is stupid. I should get off my phone." Right?

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            You could be doing that. Right now, you're not doing that because you are practicing self-harm.

Banana:           Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            But you could say to yourself, "Okay. The best way I can nurture this moment is to lie in my bed and fucking scroll. I'm going to challenge myself for five minutes to look for"—insert whatever, something you can learn from, something that can inspire you. And if you were to say that to yourself, what I'm seeing is that something comes up inside of you that's like, "No." You really have this very aggressive—troll is a good word for it. It's like you have a troll in you.

Banana:           I do.

Jessica:            You do. It's a jerk.

Banana:           Uh-huh.

Jessica:            I'm sorry. So this troll comes up and says, "No. Just sit there." You have something inside of you that is really committed to self-harm in this way.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            My advice to you is to talk to it because it's a part of you; it's not you. And I think it's actually okay to negotiate with terrorists sometimes. This is like a terrorist inside of you who's hijacking your life. But your wiser part can negotiate and say to that troll part, "Okay. Okay. You don't want me to do this. I don't want to do this. I'm going to do it for one minute and see how it goes. I'm going to find one beautiful thing, and then I'll go back to the doom scroll."

                        What I want to encourage you to do is not to dump the habit, because that's an extreme way of approaching an extreme self-harm behavior. And I know that there are things you could do that are more extreme. But your motivation is extreme, and then the cruelty and the shame spiral that you have towards yourself afterwards is extreme.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's bad. Here's the fucking irony. From what I'm seeing, the thing you're resisting becoming is happy. I mean, it's fucked up, but it is. It is.

Banana:           Yeah, [crosstalk].

Jessica:            Like happy with the things you do, happy with the person you are, happy with your capacity. And it's like, as I'm sitting here with you, I get it. Oh my God. I get it. It sounds ridiculous, I know. Like, "You're resisting being happy. Just don't resist." No, no. I get it because, on a soul level, you're moving past something you've done before. You're moving past something that your family has done before. You are moving into an unchartered landscape. And there is this terror of loneliness, of, "If I become so healthy, if I become so happy, then I have nothing left."

Banana:           For me, I've just had the sense that I'm resisting living a healthy, happy life because I'm holding on to my parents.

Jessica:            Yeah. I think you're correct. And here's the thing that I believe. For as long as you match them—and it's not just them. It's them and the people connected to them, just—it's like, for as long as you match them, you don't really have them, right?

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            You're not actually close because you're unhappy.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            It's like the way I'm being shown it is like you're at this cliff, and you're being asked to just tumble off—not to jump, not to run and go to the other side, just to tumble off and trust that you'll be safe. And everything inside of your body is saying, "That's fucking stupid. Don't do that." So, first of all, let me just say that's what I'm seeing, that when you start to tumble, you realize there's not a drop. It's just landscape you don't know how to understand yet. It's not a fall. You're not going to fall.

                        The level of closeness that you're capable of having with your parents—and other people, honestly—will deepen. It will deepen when you know yourself and you give yourself greater permission to be yourself. Right now, you know yourself, and then you punish yourself, and then you know yourself, and then you fight yourself, and then you know yourself, and you do something fucking weird. And then you're like, "Now I'm in this weird fucking position."

                        And you're fighting yourself in all these really creative ways. I mean, you know, good for you. Very creative. But when you are happy—and I don't talk about for moments. I mean, when you take the path that brings you greater happiness, your family won't understand. They'll feel some sort of abandonment or rejection. It is a gift for them to get to feel that. I don't mean that in an obnoxious way. But sometimes the most inspiring thing to trying to be happy or healthy is to just see somebody else doing it and not telling you about it, and not asking for help, or not—you know, just watching somebody else live that way.

                        And your parents—it's interesting. You're very protective of them, and you're shielding me from seeing them, which I respected; I'm not going to push past. Having boundaries is great. And let's just say yay to the boundaries. So it's like I can see the structure of their house, but I can't see inside the house kind of thing, if that makes sense. That's how I'm getting it.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And they have very narrow, very narrow, tall houses that are very rigid, okay? That's the best way I can put it. And when you are around them, you squeeze into those houses, squeeze into those tight spaces. And it just sets you off. And also—oh man. This falling—is falling a part of your dance practice? Tumbling?

Banana:           I mean, I love tumbling.

Jessica:            You love tumbling. Okay, because I've never seen, on a psychic level, tumbling so much. But I just see you are—okay. Metaphor again. It's like you are trained, and you know how to tumble. But instead of using your training, you're just falling and hurting yourself. Do you know what I mean? You have the skill, but you're not giving yourself the gift of enjoying the fall. You're not giving yourself the gift of doing it in a way that feels fun for you or feels nice for your body.

Banana:           Oh my God. Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. Okay.

Banana:           Yes. Fun.

Jessica:            Yeah. Fun. You've heard of it.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And I have to ask, do you date?

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And do you have a partner?

Banana:           I do.

Jessica:            When you're with them, are you also scrolling?

Banana:           No.

Jessica:            Interesting. So—

Banana:           I mean, like, a little bit.

Jessica:            Like a teeny bit. Like a teeny bit. Like an amount that you wouldn't write me an email about it. Like a normal amount, right?

Banana:           The last time, I was looking at tattoos in a fun way. It wasn't the self-harm.

Jessica:            Exactly. It wasn't scroll trolling.

Banana:           No.

Jessica:            It was something else. Okay. So okay. Let's hang out with this information. When you are engaged in your art practice with song and in dance, when you're engaged with your partner, this behavior doesn't show up because you're present. You're actually happy. Even when you're in a bad mood, even when you're not happy, you're happy, right?

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            When you feel like you can't be true to yourself, when you're fucking exhausted, when you get activated, that's when the scroll troll comes out. And the scroll troll is a part of you that you developed when you were little, when you were a kid, as a way to protect you from being overwhelmed by the world. So you know when you have a little baby, and you put the baby in a playpen?

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. The scroll troll is a playpen, but you are a grown-ass adult. And so it's keeping you trapped, but it was put in place to keep you safe, stop you from being hurt. But now the playpen itself is hurting you. You have outgrown it, and it no longer works. So, again, we come back to this advice. I want to encourage you, the next time the urge comes up, notice the scroll troll, and notice that you have a part of you that is like, "I must scroll," and there is another part of you that's like, "This is wrong. I don't want to do this," or, "This sucks," or, "What am I doing?" There's a part of you that's you, and then there's a part of you that is this habit or behavior; it's a coping mechanism.

                        So, first of all, we're noticing there's two parts. There's more than two, but we're just noticing there's two parts. So there's you, the Banana, right?

Banana:           Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            You are Banana. Okay. So there's Banana, and then Banana is just living Banana's life. And then, all of a sudden, Scroll Troll comes in and is like, "You must sit in bed and scroll. Life is terrible. Fucking do this terrible thing that you fucking hate," right? And so Banana is like, "I'm going to scroll."

But once you realize, "Okay. Scroll Troll is loud right now, and I'm listening to it," as soon as you can recognize, "There's this part of me that's saying this is the thing I should do right now. If I can recognize it while it's happening"—so you know that part of you that wants to scroll? "I'm going to find one beautiful thing, and then I can scroll," or, "I'm going to find one educational thing about herbs, about politics"—about your thesis, related to your thesis for your PhD, about the shoes you want to buy—whatever—something that builds you up, gives you information, inspires you, feeds you. It feeds you. It feeds you, right?

                        So one thing. It might take you several minutes to find one thing. It might take you a half hour to find one thing because the internet is crap. And it might take you a second. Negotiate with the terrorist is what I'm saying. So set the intention. Maybe you find, "Okay. That's actually working." Beef it up to three things. "I have to find three things that are beautiful."

Banana:           Okay.

Jessica:            So what I'm encouraging you to do, instead of quit the habit, is make the habit work for you. I learn so much by scrolling when I'm not being fed slop. And so there is a lot to be inspired by. I'm giving you the homework to take this infinite can of internet and fish for the good stuff. This is going to be an easier adjustment than, "Don't grab your phone," right?

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            But the other part of it is, as you practice doing this over the next few months—like, months. It's not days. It's not weeks. It's months. What you'll be doing is building awareness in the moment of what you're doing. That's what this is also a practice of, of being like, "Oh. I have an impulse, and it's an impulse that serves something. I have another impulse, and it serves something else." These two impulses are going to consciously engage, even for only a minute.

                        As you develop that muscle, the muscle gets stronger. And then it gets a little bit easier to navigate, "I want to grab my phone. I'm going to dance for five minutes in my room, and then I'm going to grab my phone," or, "I'm going to do some sort of"—I keep on seeing humming, but I don't know if that's your thing. Is it humming?

Banana:           I mean, I love humming.

Jessica:            Okay. So it might be literally saying, "I'm going to sit, and I'm going to hum." And humming stimulates your vagus nerve, which is really good for your mood. It's good for your body. It's good for your systems. So you're going to hum, 60 seconds of humming. Then you can grab your phone. Again, you're negotiating with this terrorist inside of you that is telling you to do something that makes you feel shitty.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And you're developing a relationship where you can negotiate. And then, through this practice, it will become easier to say, "I'm not going to do this right now." But you have to find something else to do in the moment that you say, "I'm not going to do this," which brings me right back to center of why I'm encouraging you to find something beautiful or educational, because you don't have a replacement habit because it's not like, "I want to escape." It's actually not that simple. I mean, it is that simple, and it's not that simple. You're not going to just sit there and not scroll and also continue to feel the way you feel. That's not a realistic goal for you right now.

                        I keep on hearing this insistent drum that's trying to get you to pay attention.  And it's like this. It's very insistent. It's very demanding. And I feel like you can hear it all the time, this sense of pressure.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            It's not even to perform, necessarily, but it's pressure.

Banana:           Yeah. It's a lot.

Jessica:            But you don't feel that with your partner, eh?

Banana:           No. I don't think so.

Jessica:            Yeah. I mean, you bring it everywhere you go, but it's not like it comes up with your partner. It comes up in you, and you are with your partner. Right?

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            There's a difference, whereas with your parents, it comes up. With school, it comes up. With sitting alone with yourself, it's really loud.

Banana:           Oh yeah. This is urgency.

Jessica:            It's urgency. And here's the thing. I mean, you're very, very psychic.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            You're very, very psychic. It's like we both have this face when we—you don't want to be this psychic. I think, theoretically, you love the idea of being psychic. But you do not—I mean, being psychic is a very heavy burden, right?

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            This is a huge part of what this is about. You are murdering the psychic impulses and the psychic perceptions you're having. And this is trying to get you to listen, and you're just like, "I can't hear you. I can't hear you. I'm scrolling. I can't hear you. I'm scrolling. I'm fine. Everything's fine," because psychic is not telling you what to do so that your life is better. That's not what psychic is. Psychic is experiencing resonance with all matter of things, and you resonate with kind of painful, heavy shit. Some people are psychic in such a way that they pick up on other people's joy and other people's hope, but you have a sensitivity to trauma.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            I have that same problem, and it sucks. It sucks. It's really hard. And when you don't have a consistent relationship to it and an outlet for it, you are likely to find yourself feeling big fucking feelings that aren't yours regularly.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            That's why you called yourself Banana, because it's bananas. It is bananas. And do you work with your psychic ability on purpose?

Banana:           My main focus has been to try and shield, but I suck at it. I'm so—I forget it, and then I just—yeah.

Jessica:            I hear you.

Banana:           I'm also a very curious person, so sometimes I'll just be like, "But I kind of want to see." You know?

Jessica:            Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I do. Of course, I do. So, if you're actively getting a PhD, you're obviously not prioritizing psychic ability, right? And it's not like one could not do both, but these are different paths, a little bit, right—

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            —because a PhD is asking you to be in process and to be in the linear world a little bit more.

Banana:           I am really working with trying to kind of dissolve that linearity in a weird way because I feel like my body doesn't work when you're—I'm also very neurodivergent. So I have to find these weird paths to do things.

Jessica:            Yes, you do.

Banana:           So it's like, yeah, I feel like I'm also, in a weird way, bumping into my psychic stuff and dealing with it, but not in a focused way.

Jessica:            I really do see that as you're describing it. You're shaping the PhD to work for you.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            The PhD you don't need my advice on. You're handling that very clearly. Part of that is because you know what a PhD is. You know what school is. You know the rules. If there's clearly defined expectations, it's easier for you to be like, "That doesn't work for me. That doesn't work for me. I'm going to do it this way," whereas with the psychic stuff, you're like, "I don't fucking know where it begins and ends.  I don't know what system to use. There's not even one real—there's systems, but are there systems?"

                        So say your full name out loud again, and I'm going to ask you to use all your names.

Banana:           [redacted]. (sings)

Jessica:            When you sing, you have such a clear channel.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            When you sing, you have such a clear channel. It's like you're using your vocal cords to externalize vibration, and then there's this very graceful, easeful path for psychic information to come in because you've kind of created this vibrational bridge. It's so cool. I've never seen that before. I mean, I might have seen it, but I didn't clock it because I wasn't in session.

Really, when you scroll troll, another thing to do is just sing your name. Sing your fucking name, man, because you're creating this vibrational bridge that connects you with not just your ancestors but with the land, with beings. You are so connected. And then you have this sense for just a moment, and it's calm, right? Do you feel it after you sing your name?

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            It's just a moment, and then your mind's like—right? But for just a moment, it's calm. And it's because you're connected. It's because you connected in. Your psychic ability is a fire hose. It's not a feather. Sorry. I'm sorry, because it's intense. It's intense. It's intense, but it is a fire hose. So okay. I'm going to give you a bunch of advice, okay? You are allowed to say no. I mean, you're psychic. Oh well. Whatever. It's like, and also, you get to say no. And I want you to know that, because when you feel trapped or cornered is when you get all fucking fucked, right?

                        So let me just acknowledge for you, for instance, you are allowed to say clearly to your guidance, clearly in your system, "I don't want any psychic connection to my parents. I will love them. I will connect with them in a material way. I will talk to them. I will listen to them. But I don't need their energy to permeate my system."

Banana:           I just—whenever I'm thinking about those strategies, immediately what comes up is I can say that once, but how long will it last?

Jessica:            Oh.

Banana:           I immediately go to that.

Jessica:            You will have to set the boundary and then reset it forever.

Banana:           Yeah, but how often?

Jessica:            Every time.

Banana:           I just had to do it now, being like, "Okay. I'm going to have this reading." And I just felt [redacted] come in, and I was like, okay, I'm going to have to, like—

Jessica:            You have to do it multiple times a day, every single day.

Banana:           Multiple times a day. Okay.

Jessica:            Every single dy.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            That's—think of it this way. Think of it this way. Life seeks out life, okay? So there are many ways we can think about the energetic invasion that people do, that your parents might do for their complex reasons, that a coworker or somebody in your class might do, a stranger might do. And on a psychological, on a sociological, on an interpersonal level, there's lots of ways to think about this and talk about this. But you and I are talking about psychic shit right now. So, on a psychic level, light and life seek out light and life. You are a fucking fire hose. You have energy and light.

And so, inevitably, every fucking moth is drawn to your flame. And it's frustrating. What do you do with moths? Are you going to have moths everywhere? That's not exactly what you want to do. But is it the fault of the moth? Do we take it personally that the moth is drawn to the light? No. We let life be life. And so part of [redacted] struggle is she does not have access to her own light. She has shut it down.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            Shut it down. And so she wants you to be less, but you're so much. And so she wants to take it. And it's not like she's thinking this. It's just the energetic pattern you're engaged in with her. So, when you started to kind of—your energy started to come up; you're like, "I'm going to have a reading with this person," so your energy got big—[redacted], on an energetic level, felt your light. And she was like a moth to the flame. She was like, "I'm going to eat that up. It's going to fill me up." And it drains you.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            So let me just slow this down for a second to say—so you know how, at the core of the earth, it is molten lava, yeah?

Banana:           Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Practice proxying your energy alongside the core of the earth so that you are essentially being big and bright and complex, but no matter how big and bright and complex you are, the molten lava at the center of the earth is hotter and more complex and brighter than you. It doesn't diminish you. It strengthens with fire, and it grounds with the earth. But you are hard to track for people who unconsciously or consciously want your light.

                        So the work is do something physical. Make a noise. You are a fire hose. Fire hose does not go quietly into the night. Fire hose is big. And then just bring your energy. Proxy it by the core of the earth. And remember what it does is it protects you. It shields you. People can't find you when you're there. The other thing it does is it invigorates you with fire, which you—you actually kind of love it. And then it also grounds you, which you need. Which you need.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            So it's like it does a lot for you at once. When you go to your parents' house for a visit, you do this on the way, in the door. You do this 500 times when you're interacting with them. Over time, you will not have to do it as frequently because you'll set it, and then you won't float away. But you're probably going to set it and float away—

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            —because it's a habit. It's a habit, but habits can be changed.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            Now, I'm going to slow down. I've given you a lot of homework and things to try out. But your body, dance, song—there's other things you do with your body. I don't know what it is, but there's things you do—really help to create that vibrational bridge for information to come in easefully. I know I already said that, but it needed to be repeated because if you go out seeking information, you get a lot of things that resonate with your fears. And then, if you're just out of your body and you're fucking scroll trolling, you're also getting just flooded with shit, right?

                        When you are in your body accessing joy and play, accessing the work of being in relationship to yourself—when you're there, information comes in, and I don't think most of that information can be written down and communicated to people. That's just not the kind of information you're getting. You're getting a body of knowledge that is building. And you're like, "Oh, this hurts. This is heavy." But it's actually building and building. And the more in relationship to yourself you are, over time, that information is going to be translated into how you relate to people and planet.

Banana:           Oh my God. I knew this.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Banana:           It's weird.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Banana:           There's a part of me that knows this.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            It took a while for me to clarify it, but this is the thing. When people talk about psychic, they think like, "Oh, Jessica talked to a cat. It was psychic," or whatever, and it's like, "Oh, Jessica knew I was thinking this thing or that I did this thing. That's psychic." I mean, it's a form of psychic that I have honed over decades, whatever. But what your experience is will also be honed over decades. It'll be honed over the rest of your life. And it will build, and it will build into something you couldn't possibly predict because you're not supposed to predict it. You're supposed to be inside of it.

                        This is about relationship to self as a foundation to relationship to all of it—all of it. And you are so—you are a fucking natural. You are so good at it, and you're equally good at being a jerk to yourself. You're equally good at falling back on habits that you developed in your childhood and then that kind of got shaped by adulthood in kind of a rough way.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            Like the scroll troll, right? Is your spiritual practice a closed practice?

Banana:           I think I'm a little cautious because Sámi spirituality has been under attack for so long.

Jessica:            Okay.

Banana:           So yeah.

Jessica:            That makes sense because, every time I look at it, it's not just you; it's also your guides are letting me see what I need to see and nothing else. I want to just, psychic to psychic, say I don't have to peep. I don't have to know details. I don't have to understand. I can be open to the information that's available and just let it be. So you've watched me, over the course of our time together, at times have to stop and really look, really feel into things. When I'm doing that, I'm trying to receive more of the important information.

                        And this practice is a little uncomfortable, right? I would prefer to be like, "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah," and just tell you everything. But the practice of being like, "Oh. I'm coming up against a wall here"—right? And in this case, the wall that I've come up against is like, "This is closed to me. This is not for me. I don't need to peep beyond this wall. This is not for me."

                        For you, you come up against walls psychically, sometimes for—they're not that deep. Sometimes they are deep. But you just feel a wall, and you have this reaction to the wall where you're like, "Oh my God. I'm not supposed to know this," or, "Oh my God. I've come somewhere I'm not supposed to be." There's something that really reacts to, "I'm not supposed to be here," instead of—what I'm being shown is practicing hanging out with the boundary that you're up against, not pushing the boundary, just hanging out with the boundary. Does that make sense to you?

Banana:           I mean, not in the psychic realm, I don't really get that consciously. But I very much have an aversion to rejection.

Jessica:            Rejection. Yes.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. That's what it is. Okay. Good. That's what it is. It's rejection because hitting a wall where it's like, "Do not pass," is kind of like a rejection, right?

Banana:           Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            So, when you encounter thoughts and feelings of rejection—right? So, again, you're at your house. You're alone. You're experiencing thoughts and feelings of rejection. My advice to you is, if you can remember to do this—and you're not going to remember it all the time, so when you can, to be like, "Oh. I'm feeling rejected. I’m not going to think about it. I'm not going to figure it out. I'm not going to prove it to myself. And I'm not going to doom scroll. I'm not going to grab my phone. I'm just going to hang out 30 seconds, a minute or two. I'm going to hang out with this rejection, with this limitation, with this boundary. I'm just going to hang out and feel it," because if your psychic self—and you might need to say your name, sing your name. You might need to do a humming exercise.

                        If your psychic self was to hang out with feelings of rejection, you might be able to actually understand what you're actually encountering because it looks to me like you're not being rejected 80 percent of the time that you feel like you're being rejected. But instead, you're experiencing some sort of impasse or boundary.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And it feels like rejection.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            It might be somebody else can't go beyond this point. It might be, "Yes, I want to, but later." It really is usually not real rejection, but the feelings that you experience are. And we could talk about that from the context of neurodivergence or trauma or whatever. But I'm sticking psychic with you, and I'm saying you are a fucking fire hose. And you're a fire hose, and you meet a metal wall. And you're like, "There's something wrong with me. I can't go past this."

                        And what I'm saying is, no, just learn how to feel into what a metal wall feels like. This is just a place where you don't go past. But that's not a rejection of your fire. It's not a rejection of your power. It's not a rejection of your presence, inherently. It's a place that you're not meant to go at this moment. That's all.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And I want you to know that this thing I'm talking to you about—one of your guides showed it to me, okay? Now, they didn't tell me, because they wanted me to experience the thing that you experience that really sets you off. So they weren't talking to me. They could. They could have talked to me. They let me see them a little earlier in our conversation, but then they were like, "No, you can't see me anymore. We're done with that."

Banana:           Oh my God. How did they look?

Jessica:            Big. Really, really big. Really, really big. Just like a very big person—person-ish. Person-ish. I don't know.

Banana:           Like a dark thing?

Jessica:            I really get a very large, human-ish—I don't know if it's a human person, but like a human shape. And I do see them as dark, and I see really big boots. The thing I can see most clearly is really big boots.

Banana:           What? Okay. That's funny.

Jessica:            Do you know who that is? Do you know what that is?

Banana:           No.

Jessica:            But that is what I'm seeing. And they wanted me to—and they just told me they don't have gender; stop thinking about it. But—were you thinking about their gender?

Banana:           Yep.

Jessica:            Okay. Yeah. They were like, "No. I don't have a gender. Stop putting that on me." But they wanted me to be able to relate to what you go through, and they wanted you to be able to see how I experienced that rejection and I didn't take it personally. And then I got information from it.

And this is one of the hardest parts about being psychic, is not taking the information personally so you can get the information from it. You feel things so—like somebody else's experience, you feel it in their body, and sometimes you feel it in your body more than they're feeling it because they're shoving it down, because they're—whatever else, right?

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And so, when you react to your feelings, you don't get information because your reaction is your trauma pattern. The feelings are someone else's. The reaction is your trauma pattern.

Banana:           Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            So somebody else is like, "I don't want you to see this part of me because I have insecurity or shame around it." And you feel that, and you feel shame and wall. And you translate that shame and wall to, "You should be ashamed. What is wrong with you?" instead of understanding you're feeling something of someone else. And so practicing hanging out, using voice and vibration as a way to receive information when you're really activated—that practice will radically change your life. It'll change your life. Will it stop you from scrolling on your phone? I don't fucking know. It's not going to be as big of a problem anymore if you have a better relationship to yourself.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And that requires being able to be like, "Okay. Okay. I'm going to hang out with these feelings. I'm just going to hang out with these feelings." That's all I needed to tell you. Okay. They were like, "Stop talking, Jessica." Okay. Sorry. So I'm just going to take a pause. I'm going to shut the fuck up for a minute, and I want to just take a minute, check in. Is there anything you want to ask me, anything kind of lingering?

Banana:           Yeah. I mean, I was thinking a little bit about—because you were saying that my PhD is going well, and that feels really nice, but there's a part of me still that's a bit like, "Really?" because I just run into this "should" thing that you were mentioning earlier. And I get scared when that happens because I know how rough that is to get past—

Jessica:            Yeah.

Banana:           —the "should" thing. So now I'm in a place where I should be flourishing and recording my album and—

Jessica:            Oh, you're in a place where you should be recording an album?

Banana:           Yeah, which is amazing.

Jessica:            I want to hear your album. Fuck. You better send me your album when you have an album. Sorry. Sorry. I didn't mean to derail you. Okay. So what's the "should"? What's the question?

Banana:           Yeah. The question is that I get the "shoulds."

Jessica:            You get the "shoulds."

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            So here's the thing. You don't get to have a birth chart with Saturn opposite Mercury, square Mars, and square the Moon and Pluto and not have the "shoulds." So the "shoulds" are not intuition. They're not wisdom. Your "shoulds" can be a lot of different things. Sometimes they stop you from not questioning things. They stop you, and they have you edit and ask questions. That's great. That's great. That's great. Ask questions.

                        Sometimes your "shoulds" are like, "You should be doing this. You're wrong. You're bad. You should have done that. You're wrong. You're bad." That's always wrong, okay?

Banana:           Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And so, whenever your "shoulds" happen, use the puppy talk rules on them because there's nothing wrong with asking questions and taking an editorial approach, but you're not doing that. You're like, "What the fuck is wrong with me? Why aren't I doing this? Why didn't I do that?" You're being mean instead of constructive.

Banana:           Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            But there's a specific decision you're trying to make right now, isn't there? Or a specific thing.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            What is it? Will you tell me what it is? Because it's distracting you.

Banana:           So I am working in a very old kind of music program that basically I've known since I was a kid. So it just flows. The issue is that it's not as complex as I feel it should be when it comes to producing music, and I'm getting insecure about trying to learn the new program and working in that or—

Jessica:            I see.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            I have a question. It is possible to use the program  you already know how to use to record it and then to bring the recording and either pay somebody, collaborate with somebody, or learn the new program and apply the new program's complexity to the existing recording? Is that possible?

Banana:           I mean, all those things are possible. I think what's messing me up right now is, "Where do I start?" because a part of me is like, I want to start learning this other program because I don't want to let go of the control of being able to shape the sound and everything. I'm also getting a bit frustrated with being in the in-between of not knowing what to do.

Jessica:            So what I'm seeing is, first of all, this is a very good problem because your creative flow will not happen if you're like, "Wait. What button do I press? Wait. How do I use this program?" It gets in the way of your flow. Right now, we have a question around your priorities, not a question of, "What should I do?" It's, what's slightly more important right now?

Is it more important right now to learn the technology so you have access to something when you do the creative process, or is it more important right now to engage in the creative process and then, once you have something to work with, learn a technology and apply it? Because what I'm seeing is you're like, "No, no, no, no, no. I want to do everything all at once. And so I want to already know the technology, and I just want to start making the music."

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            So that's not an option. So that's not an option. So I'm seeing that your body is like, "I just want to fucking make music."

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And so I'm inclined to say just do that, and then figure out the tech as you go or after you're done. But I see that your brain is like, "No, no, no. That's not the right answer. That's not the right answer. There's a reason why that's a bad answer." The problem is you're not learning the new technology, are you?

Banana:           No.

Jessica:            No, because it's hard.

Banana:           It's so hard.

Jessica:            It's not fun. It's not creative.

Banana:           No. No.

Jessica:            It's very linear, and it's not creative.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            But you want control. You want to be the one to do it. You don't want to pay somebody else to do it.

Banana:           I already have, actually, someone that wants to do it. But I kind of want to do most of it myself.

Jessica:            You want to do it yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your creative process—I mean, you're a control freak. You like to do things alone.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            Both things are true. It's fine.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            So this is like a classic problem that you run into.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            This is classic of you.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            You're like, "I definitely, definitely, definitely want to wear bright colors, but I have to wear all black." And you're just like, "Okay. Okay." So that's basically where you are right now. So I think, in this situation, "I have to learn this new program" is perfectionism, and "I am ready to be actively engaged in the creative process of making music" is in your body.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And so the perfectionism is not going to go away, because your chart is not going to all of a sudden be like, "Easy-peasy," right? You're not going to become a new person all of a sudden. So there's going to continue to be this perfectionistic voice that is not like the scroll troll. It is a different voice. It is an academic voice. It is like a, "I should be doing this, and it should be at this level, and if it isn't at this level, then it's fucked up and it's a missed opportunity," whatever, whatever. So that voice is not going to shut up. It's not going to shut up. It's not going to go away.

Banana:           Okay.

Jessica:            So the question is, do you negotiate with this terrorist, or do you say, "Okay. You're going to keep on sending me threatening emails, part of myself. But I'm going to make music right now." I actually just see the desire to sing—and it's not just singing, but I'm really pulled into your singing. The desire to make music is in your body. It's in your body. The desire to learn this new technology is not in your body. It's in this. (motions to head)

And that's a good way of—again, we're looking at priorities. What's in your body? What's the perfectionist saying? And the perfectionist is valuable. We do not want to get rid of the perfectionist. If we're not getting rid of the troll, you better believe we're not getting rid of the perfectionist. These are parts of you that you co-created with your own nature as a survival mechanism. This perfectionist part of you is not going to let you just do the easiest thing. That's fucking cool. You're going to learn, and you're going to grow. But it also stops you from doing fucking anything. So you're not making music, and you're not learning the new technology. You're just fucking obsessing, right?

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            Perfectionism. Yeah. So here's the pitch. Make music. If you feel inspired to on the side learn this program, follow that. And if you don't feel inspired, then ask yourself this. Could it be that you are being guided to find the right person to support you with the technology? The person who has offered to help you is not the right person. That's part of the problem. They're a great person in lots of ways, but I don't think that they have the energy that you need in the room for the creative process.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And does the person need to be physically in the room, or can it be done online?

Banana:           I think it could be done online. Yeah.

Jessica:            That might be a better move, honestly, for you because you're such a body person. I don't think you need somebody in a room with you. I think it might fuck up your vibes. You're too sensitive. So, when the "shoulds" happen—"I can do this, or I can do that. And there's nothing else. There's nothing else. I have to make a decision." Right? And so I want to just say the good news is there are many other options. But I'm going to encourage you to let your body win, and your body is ready to make music. And that guide has been like, "Oh, finally, you said what I need to"—it just left. It just was like, "Okay. Good. You said it."

                        Your guides are just like, "Make the fucking music. Just do your thing." You know what I mean? They're not. I shouldn't say, "Make the fucking music." That's me. They don't cuss at you or anything like that. But they're really just like, "You know what you need to do. We're here for you, but you know." So that's all that you needed to hear.

And you know what? If you leave this conversation and you're like, "Okay. I’m going to make music," and then, tomorrow, you're like, "But I should really learn the program," that's okay. You know what I mean? It's your life. It's your process. You get to make choices. You get to make choices. And the thing that I'm invested in is not the choices you make. The thing that I'm invested in is whether or not you are listening to your body.

Banana:           I've always kind of wondered because I have that very strong kind of duality. It's like my guts, ironically, tells me that my body is always right. But—

Jessica:            Yeah.

Banana:           But it's not always right, or—

Jessica:            When has your body been wrong?

Banana:           Yeah, good question.

Jessica:            Thank you. Here. Listen. With your birth chart, your body could be wrong, but you're super fucking psychic, so it isn't. Your body tells you, and then you know, and you're like, "But is that true? I don't know. It should be this. But what about that?" Yet your body is always right. Your body knows. So you follow your body, and then the challenges deepen. Or you don't follow your body, and you keep on walking into the same wall over and over again. And then there's this big dent in the wall, and it's in the shape of you. And it starts to feel like, "Oh, this is what I should do. I should keep on walking into this fucking wall."

                        But you don't need to walk into that wall. Trust your body. Your body is saying make music. Your body is saying it's time to step out of analysis and into practice. Just do that. And if it doesn't work, stop doing that and do something else. You have control issues, but you don't give yourself permission to be the chooser. And that's because you're perfectionistic, and you're—it would be—it's like we're back to the scroll conversation, right, because the reason why you scroll and you don't curate your own feed is because you don't want to be responsible. You are scared of being responsible for your choices.

And there's something about just falling headfirst into a hole and being like, "Oh well. It's not my fault. I fell in a hole," instead of making choices. Making choices is about taking responsibility for yourself. Making choices means you may make a bad choice, and then it's your fault. But if you don't make any choice, then it's kind of the Universe's fault. It's kind of like somebody else's fault. And of course, that doesn't make sense, but you're not thinking these thoughts. It's a really young part of you that's just like, "I was once in a playpen, and I felt safe. And so, even though I've outgrown this playpen, even though I'm miserable every single time I step into this playpen, I return to it because I once felt safe."

But it is your body that is more like a greyhound or a stallion than like a little gremlin in bed scrolling. And it's like you get in the bed to grab your phone because you want to feel better. And then, inevitably, 100 percent of the time, you feel worse.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            So okay. Cool, cool, cool. That's fine. That's fine. We're going to make a little adaptation to the habit, a small change. And hopefully you'll just start making music.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            And again, if you start making music and you're like, "This isn't working because I need to learn technology," okay. Then learn the technology. Make choices.

Banana:           Yep.

Jessica:            The last thing I'm supposed to tell you is, after this conversation—and I know I've given you lots of different advice and things to do. You're not supposed to do all of it perfectly all at once, okay? You're still going to have the "shoulds" in your head, obviously. So the "shoulds" are an invitation to respond to them differently. The "shoulds" are not intuition, and they are not wisdom.

                        When you encounter the "shoulds," say, "Oh, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit. Here we are again. I've been here before. Okay. What are my priorities? What is my body saying?" not, "What should I do?" It's like, "Okay, the 'should' is a scab over this vulnerable wound. I don't know how to prioritize myself. How can I prioritize myself?" Make the practice of being curious, of meeting yourself, and then make some choices. See what happens.

                        We're not striving for perfection. It's not about that. Make mistakes; just make new mistakes. Don't make the old mistakes. Make a new one. That's the goal. Make new mistakes. And then learn from those mistakes as slowly or quickly as you need to, and then keep on going and evolve so that you eventually get to make even newer mistakes, instead of getting it right. Getting it right is the result of making many mistakes. It's not the result of figuring it out and then doing it once and perfectly.

Banana:           Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay, good. Okay, good. Okay, good. Okay, good. This was fun. This went in a completely different direction than I expected, and I loved it.

Banana:           I loved it so much. Thank you.

Jessica:            Oh, it's so my pleasure.