Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Jessica:            All right, Turtle and Rabbit. Welcome to the podcast. What are we doing your couples reading about?

Rabbit:            All right. Here's our question. "My partner and I have been together for 14 years, married for 6. As we age, evolve as individuals, and untangle patterns of codependence, it seems we may need to change our living arrangement, relationship status, the number of cats in our home, or something else to remain healthy with one another. Any guidance on what changes or approaches to change might bring us the most success?"

Jessica:            Okay. Now, Turtle, you co-sign this question?

Turtle:             Yes.

Jessica:            And is there anything you would add or adapt to it? You don't have to, but just making space for that.

Turtle:             No.

Jessica:            Okay.

Turtle:             It was pretty general, hit all the subjects, I believe.

Jessica:            Okay. And—okay. First, 14 years. Congratulations. Fucking fabulous, right?

Rabbit:            Thank you.

Turtle:             Thank you.

Jessica:            Wonderful. And when you talk about this kind of change, why do you feel like you need the change?

Rabbit:            I think I might have initiated it, so it makes sense, perhaps, for me to give more context. I think our evolution as individuals, and I will say mine specifically, like our substance-use patterns—we're both engaged in therapy now, which is a new thing—it has kind of unveiled the ways in which we're pretty codependent. And I think, increasingly, as we've also learned more about neurodivergence, it's really clear that we have very different somatic needs, and our nervous systems function really differently.

                        And so that has been a driver for us to engage in couples counseling and try to explore patterns that have been challenging with regards to our communication that have been going on for years, but we're really getting down to the meat of, "Oh, what is this? How does this work?"

Jessica:            How about you, Turtle?

Turtle:             I agree. Aging is a very unique process that you don't always have the transcript for. And I mean, I have been facing lots of different health issues come up, and yeah, it definitely affects our relationship.

Jessica:            And when you say it affects your relationship, Rabbit, do you agree?

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. We're going to get to your charts in a minute, but how much of your struggles around somatic, nervous system connection, communication, even substance use—how much of those things are kind of deeply related to living together? Which I'm assuming you're doing because you're married.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Rabbit:            Yeah, we're living together. I think they have to do with, even, how we exist in space. I am a loud person that moves fast and likes to be expressive and scream and shout, and that is something that can make Turtle reactive or want to go into their hidey-hold and dysregulate them. And so I think, for a very long time, I have been working hard to try to regulate my nervous system so that I don't have Turtle retreat. And so it has been restricting because I've been—yeah.

Jessica:            I have a question about that. You say that you're loud and you're reactive. Are you talking about when you're upset, or are you like, "Oh my God, there's a pony on the road," kind of person?

Rabbit:            That.

Jessica:            You're—okay. So you're trying to adapt that, or are you only trying to change the negative reactions?

Rabbit:            I think I'm trying to quiet that so that I can stay in relationship with Turtle.

Jessica:            Okay. Wait. I'm going to slow you down, and I'm going to ask Turtle. Turtle, does that feel like something that either you need or you would really value in order to stay in relationship?

Turtle:             Seeing how much it affects Rabbit is making me aware, more aware of my process.

Jessica:            What affects Rabbit?

Turtle:             How they're having to suppress parts of themself, whether or not they want to, for my benefit, which I appreciate. But also, that hurts me a little bit to see them having to shift and change in that way or manner.

Jessica:            And so, when,  let's say, Rabbit is like, "Oh my God, there's a pony on the side of the road," and gets loud and dramatic, do you have a negative reaction to that on a nervous system level?

Turtle:             I do.

Jessica:            Okay.

Turtle:             I do. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay.

Turtle:             And that's just my trauma.

Jessica:            Okay. No, whether it's trauma or it's cultural or it's personality, I'm just kind of getting the lay of the land. And I'm going to pull up the charts. Okay. So we got Turtle and we got Rabbit. Rabbit is Libra stellium, fourscore and 7,000 planets in Libra.

Rabbit:            Yes.

Jessica:            Okay.

Rabbit:            All Libra.

Jessica:            And then, Turtle, you've got the stellium in Sagittarius. And now I'm looking at your relationship chart. We're not sharing where your relationship is taking place, but the way that composite charts are cast requires a physical location. Just giving that context. I'm looking at the chart of your relationship here, and I'm going straight to it. Usually, I will actually start with the individual birth charts, but the two of you are so unified on what the problem is. And I'm guessing I'm going to poke some holes in that unity in a minute, but I want to just start by saying, oftentimes, when I do couples' charts, they're not unified on what the problem is. And that's its own problem.

                        And so I want to really validate and acknowledge that you're in agreement, you're in a sense of understanding, you're teammates, about the problem. Does that feel right?

Rabbit:            Yes.

Turtle:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. So that's a huge fucking deal. Let's not undermine what that means. You have something in your relationship chart that is probably the most desirable thing to have in a love relationship chart, which is this beautiful Venus/Jupiter conjunction. It's in the fourth house. Did you do the U-Haul?

Rabbit:            Not entirely.

Turtle:             No.

Jessica:            You didn't move in together quickly?

Turtle:             No.

Jessica:            Okay.

Turtle:             I don't think so. Yeah.

Jessica:            Great. Well, what do you mean, you don't think so?

Turtle:             I mean, I wouldn't say, like, you know, two weeks in and we're, like, U-Hauling. We didn't do that.

Jessica:            First year?

Rabbit:            Two years, we bought a home together.

Jessica:            Okay. And were you living together in a rental before those two years?

Turtle:             No.

Rabbit:            No.

Jessica:            Okay. Wild. Okay. Cool. Cool, cool, cool. That's such a bold move.

Turtle:             Wild.

Jessica:            That's a bold move; is it not?

Turtle:             Well, isn't it?

Jessica:            I'm going to go with yes.

Turtle:             Right?

Jessica:            It's not a bad—bold and bad are not the same thing. But it's a little bold. Yeah. Sure. Okay. Back to more Venus, our Venus/Jupiter conjunction. It's just such a lovely placement in a composite chart because it speaks to love, love and like and compatibility. And that doesn't mean that there aren't other things that contradict that or make that complicated. But you have this beautiful aspect here. You also have Mercury conjunction to Jupiter. So, when the two of you are chatting and talking and getting along, when it's working, it works spectacularly, I would imagine. You're interested in each other. You like each other. You have a good friendship base. Does that feel right?

Rabbit:            Yes.

Turtle:             Correct.

Jessica:            Okay. You also have a Venus/Neptune conjunction. And so this placement comes up in relationship charts when nobody wants to be the bad guy. Nobody wants to be the one who made a mistake or did something wrong, so there's a tendency to be affirming even when things are not okay. Does that track?

Rabbit: Yes.

Jessica:            For both of you?

Turtle: Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. Venus/Neptune conjunction—unfortunately, this placement—there's not always total honesty. And it's niceness dishonesty. It's not like "I'm secretly fucking with you" dishonesty. You also have a Mars/Pluto conjunction.

Rabbit:            Oof.

Jessica:            Yeah. So, when the two of you are activated or upset, it's fucking deep. It's deep, deep, deep. And there can be feelings of resentment that build up over time if things don't get dealt with.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay.

Turtle:             Yep.

Jessica:            So—and we don't have to talk about sex at all, but are you comfortable talking about sex?

Rabbit:            I think it would be important to.

Jessica:            Okay.

Turtle:             Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            So is it still active? You've been together a long time.

Rabbit:            Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah?

Rabbit:            Intermittently, sparsely, but yes.

Jessica:            Sparsely. And when it happens—frequency aside, when it happens, does it still feel hot, fun, connected—whatever adjectives are most important to you?

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Turtle:             Yes.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Both of you. Great, because listen. Listen. This fucking Mars/Pluto conjunction—it makes sex complicated.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Turtle:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And it makes—so this Venus sitting on top of Neptune sitting on top of Jupiter, Neptune and the Moon in the fifth house, it's like making love. It's like sensually and sexually and emotionally connecting. Mars/Pluto is working out shit in the bedroom. It's a very different vibe. So you have both of these things really activated in the relationship chart. And at times, I would imagine, in the relationship, one component is more activated than another.

Rabbit:            Yeah. I feel like it tends towards the making love, sensuality. And then, instead of working it out, it's abandoned.

Jessica:            Okay. And is kinky sex—and there's a really big umbrella over that term, but is kinky sex something that either the two of you do or one of you really likes?

Rabbit:            It is not something that we share. It is likely something that I would really want.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm.

Turtle:             We are a little kinky. We're not completely vanilla.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. But there's kind of an unexplored component for one of you around that?

Rabbit:            Yes.

Turtle:             Correct.

Jessica:            And for the other one, it would feel a little unsafe, or it's not quite a matching kink?

Turtle:             Correct.

Jessica:            That's a correct, question mark?

Turtle:             Question mark. Yeah. Yeah, I'd say.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay.

Turtle:             It's still something we're working on, I would say.

Jessica:            Okay. You're working on it. Okay.

Turtle:             Or starting to explore might be a better term.

Jessica:            And do you both feel like you're starting to explore it?

Rabbit:            I don't. I mean, I think we're talking about it, and that's a big step. And we started couples therapy, and that's a big step. But it's been kind of an ongoing need for myself for a long time. And I think, to bring in the aging and sex drive and menopause—and so it feels like something that would be an imposition. And so I invited Turtle to initiate those conversations when they feel ready, and that just doesn't seem to happen, based on recent cycles, I guess. But it's absolutely something that we talk about from time to time, and it's acknowledged.

Jessica:            Have you found, in your 14 years of being together, that talking about sex as a team has helped improve sex as a team?

Rabbit:            No, not really.

Jessica:            How about you, Turtle?

Turtle:             I find that talking about it or mentioning it helps me. I'm not sure how much it's helped, but it definitely helps open me up more.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. I'm going back to your individual charts here. Let me just get in there. So, Rabbit, you've got this Venus/Uranus conjunction. You want to try different things sexually, in different places, at different times, in different ways. You just kind of want to get in there and get-'r-did and then keep on going.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Now, listen. You also have a stellium in Libra, so there's also a part of you that really craves and nurtures long-term relationships and consistency. But that Venus/Uranus is all over the damn place. And you have, for almost a year now, been going through a Uranus opposition to Uranus, which is the beginning of the midlife transits—

Rabbit:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            —which, Turtle, you're already out of. And also, Uranus has been opposite your Venus. It's still happening. You've got, I think, another couple months on this one. And so you've been restless for change.

Rabbit:            Oh, yeah.

Jessica:            You've just been like, "I just need to shake things up." And you are somebody who—I'm not surprised that you're like, "Yeah, talking hasn't really helped," because talking puts you in your head, and then when you get in your head, there's this deep drain that pulls you under into overthinking, whereas if you just get in there and get it done, then overthinking gets skipped a little bit.

Rabbit:            I think yes. I've never thought of it in those terms, but I suppose the somatic element—if the somatic element is not there—there's not the release—I'm like, "What has this talking done?"

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. I get that. I get that. Now, conversely, Turtle, you have a Mars/Neptune conjunction. And listen. When we look at all the Sagittarius, it's fire. It's excitement. It's like, "Let's have adventures. Let's get in there." But Mars/Neptune conjunction is—Mars is fornicating, and Neptune sieves away the physicality of Mars when it's so close to Mars. And so, for you, you can have really sexual moments, and then, really, they go away. People who have this aspect often experience just not really thinking about it or caring about it for periods of time and then, at other periods of time, being super motivated towards it.

Turtle:             That is my experience.

Jessica:            Yeah. And for you, the more sedentary your life is in general, the less sexual you're likely to feel in general because Neptune is winning, so now you're more—not in your head, but in the ethers.

Turtle:             Oh yes.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. And so, while talking is good or you—because what it does is it directs you in your hot-air balloon which cloud to try to navigate towards—it doesn't necessarily result in material things, per se. And this is where there's this larger question—so menopause was mentioned. I'm going to come to that in a minute. But there's this larger question of, do you want to be having more sex?

Turtle:             Sometimes I do.

Jessica:            Hmm. I'm going to let that matzo ball just hang out there and say, okay. Okay. Let me rephrase the question. Do you want—in your relationship between the tortoise and the hare, do you want a function of your relationship to have more frequent sex?

Turtle:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. So, as an umbrella, it's a clear yes. But when I'm asking you pointedly, it's more like, "Yes, I think so"?

Turtle:             Right.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. That's cool. We're on a fact-finding mission here. We're on a fact-finding mission here. Does this track? Is this surprising to you, Rabbit?

Rabbit:            No, not at all.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. Okay. Cool, cool, cool. And you guys are monogamous, right?

Rabbit:            Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. Let me just be really, really clear here. Stay monogamous. This relationship is a monogamous relationship. I don't know if you've been kind of like, "Oh, maybe we should open it up." That's not going to address whatever issues exist, from my perspective. Have you been thinking about opening it up?

Rabbit:            I've been broaching the subject as a way for me to get what I feel are my increased needs around sexuality met and to relieve Turtle of those duties, which I have not seen them enthusiastically engaged in.

Jessica:            Okay. That is very well stated. Are you a writer?

Rabbit:            No.

Jessica:            Oh. Well, hopefully you're a public speaker, because that was very well stated. Okay. So you know this, Turtle?

Turtle:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. And how do you feel about opening up—being relieved of your duties?

Turtle:             I didn't want to be relieved of my duties. I didn't expect to be relieved of my duties. I thought I would still be engaged in duties. But I was working towards finding my way to—

Jessica:            So I'm going to interrupt you because I didn't ask you what you thought. I asked you how you felt.

Turtle:             I've felt lots of things around this. I have felt insecure. I have felt—I mean, abandonment always comes up. Yeah, I've felt all kinds of emotions around this.

Jessica:            So it doesn't feel exciting and fun and cool?

Turtle:             Exciting, fun, and cool for me? No.

Jessica:            Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Turtle:             For Rabbit, yeah.

Jessica:            Sure. But I wasn't asking Rabbit. I already know how Rabbit feels. Rabbit's very direct, very clear. Yeah. I mean, I get that, because, Turtle, you have your Saturn sitting opposite your Moon and your Venus. You are not a nonmonogamous Turtle. That's how you got the name Turtle, right? That is just not your jam, exactly. And I tend to be of this mind: that if the problem is nobody's eating meals in this relationship, then one person going outside of the relationship for dessert doesn't actually solve the problem, unless of course both people are totally in agreement—which happens, but I don't think is happening here.

                        So I'm going to pull back, and I'm going to just check and see. To me, this seems like this issue has existed in your relationship for many years, but it has gotten worsened with hormonal changes. Am I clocking that correctly?

Rabbit:            Yes.

Turtle:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. I'm actually going to have you, Turtle—will you say your full name out loud?

Turtle:             [redacted].

Jessica:            Thank you. Okay. So you're postmenopausal, eh?

Turtle:             Correct.

Jessica:            And are you getting any kind of hormonal support?

Turtle:             I have started within the last year.

Jessica:            Has it made any difference?

Turtle:             It's helping. I'm starting to finally notice some changes.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. I'm going to be a pushy psychic, and I want to say, before I say anything else, that you know you, and the two of you know your relationship more than I do, as psychic as I might be, okay? So it's your job to let me know if I'm on the wrong page. So, if I look at what's happening now, I do see that there is a hormonal component, but it's a sliver. Turtle, it looks like a sliver. It looks like it's something else. It looks like your life feels like it's not generating energy for you. Are you feeling stuck in your life outside of the relationship?

Turtle:             Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. And is that news to you, Rabbit?

Rabbit:            No.

Jessica:            Okay, because this is a pattern that you've experienced before. It was different. Obviously, you were younger. Maybe you weren't in a 14-year-long relationship. But you've experienced this before. When you get really stuck-feeling in your life, then you get more disengaged from your body.

Turtle:             Correct.

Jessica:            Yeah. That, to me, looks like 80 percent of what's happening for you around your sexuality. You're just fucking gone from your body. And some of this is aging. Aging is hard, especially around sex. It's like your body just feels different. It looks different—all the things. But I actually am seeing 80 percent of this is you being disconnected from who you are now because you're feeling stuck.

And if that is in fact correct, then there's good news and bad news and complicated news. The good news is it's not hormonal. That's actually good news, right? It's not medical. The bad news is it's not hormonal; it's related to other things that you have to deal with that you don't know how to deal with or you don't want to deal with.

                        And then the complicated news is I think it's easier for both of you to believe that, Turtle, you're going through hormonal stuff, and that's why you're not really as down to get down with Rabbit. It's, like—feels less personal, although this isn't exactly personal to you, Rabbit, at all. This is a thing that happens inside of Turtle.

Rabbit:            Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. Okay. So are you working right now, Turtle?

Turtle:             No.

Jessica:            Okay.

Turtle:             I'm finishing up some school.

Jessica:            Is there a job on the other side of school?

Turtle:             Not yet. That's the big abyss.

Jessica:            Okay. And what is it that you're going to be doing next?

Turtle:             Accounting.

Jessica:            Wait. Accounting? Fascinating.

Turtle:             Oh no.

Jessica:            No, no, no. I'm not mad at it. I'm not mad at it. It's not what I thought you were going to say. It totally shook me to my core, but you like it?

Turtle:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. Rabbit is shaking head no.

Turtle:             Well, I am an artist, so this is, like—accounting would be a means to an end, right?

Jessica:            Yeah.

Turtle:             It's like a totally different life that can offer me more flexibility, more fluidity.

Jessica:            Okay. Rabbit, you don't agree. I mean, you've got a Rabbit suit on, and still, your body language says you don't agree.

Rabbit:            I can agree with what Turtle just said. I think the means to the end—I know that this program has been a slog for them, and any mention of, "How's it going? What are you learning?" is always met with, like, "Ugh."

Jessica:            Totally.

Rabbit:            I mean, I don't know if that's just the school element of it, and I think there's a hypothetical job scenario that you might really love, Turtle, but that hasn't materialized yet. So it's hard to—

Jessica:            So let me just jump in and say—artist? Yeah. That tracks. Looking at your chart, artist tracks. Social worker tracks. Accountant? Fascinating. You're choosing within your nature, but you're choosing what probably feels, on some level, like a capitulation to you. So your job is to make good to your promise to yourself, and I want to tell you you're not doing it on an energetic level at this time. You're telling yourself, "Okay. I'm doing this really practical thing so that I can make money as I age and have the life I want." That is reasonable. I like that. I mean, I'm a fucking Capricorn on Capricorn. I'm into that, right? The problem is you don't believe it. You're not vibing with it, but you're vibing with the capitulation to capitalism or fucking obligation or shit you don't want to do.

I'm going to give you homework, and I know it doesn't sound like it's anything to do with sex, but it is. Okay. My homework for you is to find five models of people who are in the accounting field who have businesses that you respect or want to emulate. And you might be like, "I really respect and want to emulate this thing that this person does, but I really don't like that thing that this person does." That's fine.

But you need five models of accountants that seem like they're having fun or that are working within your ethics or that seem like they're free or something like that because you and your body and your sexuality—you like to live in a hot-air balloon. And right now, this accounting thing is just putting rocks in your balloon, okay? So I clearly nailed that. Okay. And that's not working, and it's making you feel—it's not just making you feel unsexy; it's making you feel like you don't want to be in your body because when you meet your body, you're like, "This fucking place I live. Oh my God."

And here's the thing. You've got to do this for yourself. Your Rabbit cannot do this for you. And your Rabbit can do a lot. Am I right, Rabbit?

Rabbit: I'd like to think so.

Jessica:            Yes. I'd like to think so, too. But this is not on the list. This is like a "you gotta do for you" thing. And the good news is Uranus is opposing your Mars. This is the time for you to make a change. This is actually a really good time for you to be having sex, too. Here's the "but."

Turtle:             There's a "but"?

Jessica:            There's always a "but." If there wasn’t a "but," we wouldn't be talking about it.

Turtle:             That's right.

Jessica:            So the "but" is you're waiting to get comfortable in your body before you meet your partner sexually, and that's not realistic in this exact moment. Sorry. I didn't mean to laugh at it. It's not funny. But I just identify human bodies, meat suits—it's a horror. Okay. Instead—and do you guys have, like, a "one person initiates and the other person doesn't" dynamic, or is it kind of like both/both?

Rabbit:            We kind of altered that dynamic because, historically, it has felt like I'm the one initiating and the one that has all the needs. And having that be not reciprocated felt kind of like a rejection. And I knew there was lots of stuff in this area that Turtle was working through. And so, in the last year, about a year ago, I said, "I'm going to take a back seat, and I want you to initiate. And you can lead those conversations because I don't want to feel like I'm shoving them down your throat and causing you to retreat around them."

And the whole cheese grater or the sieve thing sounds so accurate. And there have been bursts—and it's literally been moments of like, "Now?" And then I'm like, "Well, actually, I'm in the middle of dinner." And then it's over, and then it's gone.

Jessica:            Then it's gone. Then it's gone. Yeah.

Rabbit:            But it hasn't been—yeah. And so we kind of—I altered that, or I asked Turtle to alter that. And so I don't even know what our natural rhythm is now—

Jessica:            I see.

Rabbit:            —around initiating.

Jessica:            Okay. I'm going to ask if this is possible, but I kind of think, Rabbit, the answer for you is, like, "Yeah." So I am a little bit more asking you, Turtle. If you had a date night scheduled and the expectation was hanky-panky would exist—now, what is fucking? You know? I mean, some people have very, very strict definitions. Other people are a lot more loose with it. I'm not saying specific acts must be performed, but sexual connection is what I'm talking about. Would that make you feel pressured, either of you, but mainly Turtle?

Turtle:             A bit.

Jessica:            It would make you feel pressured?

Turtle:             A bit. I mean, yeah, I feel like it's something that would uniquely just kind of flow. Scheduling equals pressure.

Jessica:            Scheduling does equal pressure. You're not wrong. Here's my question, okay, because you're right. In the hot-air balloon of life, you kind of flow into experiences, and then they come together. Right? And that is your preference. And it's also a little escapist for you because then you're never fully responsible for it, and it's like you can kind of back away from it just as easily as you can flow towards it. And I'm saying that not about sex exclusively. This is just how the Mars/Neptune conjunction works.

And I'm coming for you, Rabbit. Don't worry. We're right now focusing on you,  Turtle, but we're going to talk about everybody and to everybody. Okay. Turtle—

Turtle:             Yes.

Jessica:            —one of the things that I think you're at a crossroads with is your partner is so clear about what they need, and you are clear that, technically, you're down. Technically, you want to give them what they need, yes?

Turtle:             Correct.

Jessica:            Okay. But practically, in order to give them what they need, you have to overcome all of these hurdles that have been there way before you've known Rabbit and feel increasingly insurmountable.

Turtle:             Yeah. That kind of feels right.

Jessica:            Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so I'm going to give you really annoying advice that might not be right for you, and it's going to press you. And I want you to just sit with and explore it, not just in this moment, but you all will talk about this after we get off our call. But what I want to encourage you to consider is, could you once every two weeks, once a week, go out and look for a place to make out that's not in your house? Maybe it's in the bathroom of a leather bar. Maybe it's at a lookout. Can you press yourself, knowing that you do feel pressured—it does feel a little like, "I have to get over myself to get into this"? Can you choose to pressure yourself, because once you are hooking up with Rabbit, you actually do really enjoy it, and waiting for the moment to kind of catch you hasn't been working?

Turtle:             Syncing up has not worked, no.

Jessica:            No. Mm-mm.

Turtle:             So yeah. That's—I could work on pressuring myself.

Jessica:            Yeah. There's this couples counselor I knew once who said that in long-term relationships, at a certain point for a lot of couples, having sex is like chewing on cardboard. That's what he said. It always stuck with me because it's a very Capricorny thing to say. I don't know if he was a Capricorn or not, but it stuck with me. It's not what you want to hear, Rabbit. I know. Nobody wants to hear it's like chewing on cardboard. But there is an element of, when somebody becomes your family and you're with them long enough, you feel like your comfort becomes increasingly more important, your comfort and your safety. And that's a beautiful thing.

                        But sex is inherently Plutonian. It's inherently like—what do they call cumming? The little death, right? It's edging behavior. It's stepping outside of comfort and ease, hopefully to have fun and passion and all the things. But what I'm encouraging you to do is to be willing to nibble on some cardboard and see if it's actually your favorite delicious meal because if you're willing to choose to stay present through the parts of you that are like, "I can't. I just can't"—it's like—and a sense of exhaustion and blocking is how I'm seeing it.

Turtle:             Sex as exhausting?

Jessica:            It's more like the initiating it, or at the very beginning of it, it can feel like there's a block or a sense of exhaustion in your body. So it's not that sex is exhausting. It's more this, like—what I'm seeing—and again, I could be wrong—is that you're meeting your body, and your body is feeling like, "Ugh," and not in reaction to the sexual experience, but just—that's where you're meeting your body.

Turtle:             It's not like [makes noise]. It's more just like this pressure to really meet Rabbit. I don't want to get it wrong. The approach, I feel like, is so important, that initiation is so important, that [crosstalk] pressure.

Jessica:            Interesting. And do you agree, Rabbit? Is it so important? Is the approach and initiation really important?

Rabbit:            There's practical elements, but beyond, like, "We're about to leave the house; don't initiate now," no, I don't find it to be that important.

Turtle:             Well, I feel like as you were wanting me to initiate—you wanted me to tell you when it would be an okay time—those kind of things, it really set me off on a different path where I was like, "Okay." I felt this responsibility. I felt this pressure.

Jessica:            So this brings us to the part of your relationship chart that I would say is the hardest part, which is the Mars/Pluto conjunction. It's a power struggle. You're a little bit in a power struggle. And that's fair because you're both asking the other person to do something that the other person doesn't really want to do. Whether it's, "I need you to initiate," or it's, "You're telling me I need to initiate," you're both asking for something reasonable. Your feelings are reasonable. But there is a struggle.

                        And the reason why I started off this point of inquiry, Turtle, with asking you, "Do you want to be having more sex in your relationship?" is because I wanted to make sure that that's actually your goal. So I want to come back to that question. Do you want to be having more frequent sex, now that we're kind of in the topic a little more?

Turtle:             Yes.

Jessica:            You do? Okay. And, Rabbit, how important is it—like, scale of 1 to 10 me. How important is it that Turtle initiates?

Rabbit:            It's not. But I think the intention with having Turtle initiate was because I felt like I was the one always initiating, and then to initiate with someone who's not in their body and doesn't want to receive that or is not prepared to go there, it feels like, yeah, I don't want to do that. I don't want it to feel like I'm pressuring or making someone feel uncomfortable or go beyond their boundaries.

Jessica:            Right.

Rabbit:            Yes. So that's really why I wanted to offer that, to give you the opportunity, and then also for us to be able to reflect, to be like, well, how much in a year—I mean, we didn't time it that way, but how much does it even come up for you?

Jessica:            Turtle, does this make sense?

Rabbit:            It makes sense.

Jessica:            But is it what you were thinking Rabbit wanted?

Turtle:             I feel like it's changed over the course of the last couple years.

Jessica:            So okay. I'm going to come back to this because, when I look at both of your individual charts, one thing I see that you share that is a thing you hold in common—and I would imagine, if you think back to your dirty, dirty youth when you were just dating or whatever, or maybe at the early days of your relationship, you both have it in your nature to like spontaneous sex as kind of a fun adventure moment. That is something you've both done separate from each other and maybe together, as well, eh?

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Turtle:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. That's why I asked about the date night, because I was like, if you could have a date night where you have a weird adventure makeout location, it would feel like pressure for sure. Unfortunately, Turtle, it would at first be a little bit of chewing cardboard. But what I'm trying to be curious about is, if the two of you were like, "We're going to do an activity together, and this is the activity," could it start to shift the energy between the two of you? This might not work. Like I said at the beginning, this might not be something that actually works for any number of reasons.

                        But there's an element of talking about this that I think is really important, but nobody is surprising anybody in this conversation, it sounds like. You know this about each other. So now there's—it sounds like it's time for a behavioral shift. How does that feel, Turtle?

Turtle:             We definitely need to shift. Yeah. Behavioral sounds correct. It feels like it's been very cerebral. We've talked a lot.

Jessica:            How about you, Rabbit? How does that feel to you?

Rabbit             Like, 100 percent.

Jessica:            Yeah. I mean, I figured you'd be like, "Yes, bitch, that is what I'm saying." Okay. Okay. So then this is like your least favorite thing, Turtle, because in a way, you're the one who's kind of slowing things down and putting out a stop sign. And so then the pressure is on you to release your foot from the brake. It's like your least favorite thing that is, in part, a habit that you have that creates it. Does that make sense, what I'm saying?

Turtle:             Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. Sorry. So, unfortunately, Turtle, there's a lot of pressure on you inside of that. I want to acknowledge that, and I want to acknowledge this is not your fucking favorite thing, is your pressure.

Turtle:             Joy, joy, joy.

Jessica:            Yeah. I'm so sorry. But it is pressure to have fun.

Turtle:             Right.

Jessica:            Yeah. It is pressure to have fun. Listen. Capricorn to Capricorn, when somebody tells me to have fun, I instinctively am like, "Never. Against my will only." I literally yesterday was wearing a sweatshirt that said, "No fun." So I know what I'm saying to you is like—it might sound lovely to somebody else, and to you, maybe not as much. But when that feeling of resistance you have comes up around being in your body or having an adventure with your partner or making a move or acknowledging that your partner is kind of giving you a little bit of eyes, like the subtle hints to be like, "Okay. It's time. Make your move now. Door's open. Enter the room"—you know? And, Rabbit, I'm seeing that correctly, that you do that? You give subtle hints?

Rabbit:            I think so, yeah.

Jessica:            I think so, too. Okay. So, Turtle, your challenge—

Turtle:             Yes.

Jessica:            —is to do it even though you're uncomfortable, to just try, because it's the one thing you haven't done yet. I mean, you've done it once or twice, but you haven't made it a new strategy. And this strategy that I'm recommending for your sex life—apply that to your work life. Apply that to all the parts of your life where you feel stuck because you are driving on your brakes, and it's fucking up the car. And you're not having fun. You're getting there but slower than you need to.

                        So I'm going to let that cook for you a little bit, Turtle. And I'm going to come to you, Rabbit, and I'm going to ask you this. How does all of this—how is this landing? How is this feeling? Because you're doing a lot of listening right now.

Rabbit:            Yeah. I mean, all this resonates. It makes sense, and it seems, obviously, oriented to our scenario. I think what is hard to accept or to imagine is I want to be enthusiastically taken to bed by someone. I see the struggle and—like, enthusiastically. You know? And so that is hard.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Rabbit:            And I think that's one reason why I was the one to initiate being like, "I can go outside and get some needs met and relieve you of that pressure."

Jessica:            Yeah.

Rabbit:            And at least I personally feel—I don't know if I'm making it up—that I could maintain this love relationship and my duty to Turtle, which I feel strongly about. So that's hard. That's a little bit hard and disappointing to swallow because I feel like for me to get my needs met is going to be in service of Turtle's healing journey around it.

Jessica:            Okay. First of all, I just want to say that is fucking just very real. That is really very real. And, Turtle, have you heard this before?

Turtle:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. And when you hear this, do you think, "Okay, go out there and get some"?

Turtle:             There's definitely a part of me that says yes.

Jessica:            Okay. Is there someone, Rabbit, specifically that you would want to hook up with, or is it more just like—

Rabbit:            No.

Jessica:            No. It's not about that. Okay. Just checking. Just checking.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Sex for you is such a huge outlet. Are you also an artist?

Rabbit:            I'm not an artist, no. I've been more of an athlete my whole life.

Jessica:            Oh. Fun.

Rabbit:            Yeah. Physical.

Jessica:            So I was going to say—because you have this stellium in the fifth house, and it includes Jupiter sitting on top of Pluto, which is just like, "More, more, more, more, more, more. Rabbit likes it." But you also have Sun/Saturn conjunction, so it's not shocking that you're in this situation. And I'm guessing it's not the first time you've been in this situation within a partnership; is that correct?

Rabbit:            Perhaps within a long-term partnership, yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Rabbit:            Yeah. It is, actually.

Jessica:            Yeah, because you're drawn towards those Saturnian types who tend to have a harder time motivating in their body and being spontaneous over time.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            For better and fucking worse, right? And so I'm going to have you say your full name out loud.

Rabbit:            Yeah. All my names. Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Rabbit:            [redacted].

Jessica:            So, first of all, I want to acknowledge that as I look at you psychically, you're being really honest. You want to be in this relationship. You want to be in this—I mean, I want to say marriage. It feels like a very serious partnership. And also, you desperately need and want something that you're not getting. And I want to just, first of all, just really validate and acknowledge that. And, Turtle, I know that's hard to hear, but it's so important that you hear it.

Turtle:             Agreed. Yeah. I mean, I have been hearing them state their needs, and it's debilitating, you know, like I'm—

Jessica:            Because you hear this pressure and disappointment.

Turtle:             I hear this, like—yeah, like I'm not—you know, like you're not fulfilling and helping your partner thrive.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Turtle:             Yeah. It's painful.

Jessica:            Yeah. It sucks. Okay. Now, I have things I can say because I'm a fucking loudmouth, but Rabbit, is there anything in particular that you want to ask me or you want me to speak to around this in any way?

Rabbit:            Well, one, I'm open to all the advice and all the words. And I think an element of that is just me trying to hold living in service and wait of Turtle's healing journey and moving towards getting my needs met and asserting that I actually have needs feels like the point that I'm at. And  I don't know how to reconcile those, and I don't want to abandon my own needs either.

Jessica:            Yeah. And this is the crux. And this is the crux, is that you have abandoned your needs. And this has been slow-cooking for a long time, but it's been at a boil for longer than a small time.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            So this wasn't abandoning your needs; this was meeting your partner where they were at and compromising.

Rabbit:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And now it's abandoning your needs. And I really hear Turtle say, "That makes me feel bad, and it makes me feel pressured," and all those things. But I also, Turtle, hope you hear that this is not about you and what you are or aren't doing. This is about Rabbit and how their life has been and what they feel and what they need. And, Rabbit, I want to say that you're in a fucked-up position because, in a relationship, when one person doesn't give the other person what they need, we like to say, "Oh, this person should have or could have but didn't." But none of that is the case here.

                        This is, in part, a dynamic that has developed over time between the two of you, but it is also, in part, authentic differences because, Rabbit, you do need sex as an emotional connection and you also need sex as a physical action that you do that you enjoy.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Am I seeing that right? Yeah. It's not just one or the other, because for some people it's just about emotional connection or it's just about the physicality. But for you, you get both of those things in a really big way.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. And the two of you are different in this way. You're just different in this way. There's ways that you're so similar. Oh my God. The two of you get along so well. Your relationship is so good. I want to validate that. And I also want to acknowledge that this is either an irreconcilable difference, or it's something that you meet in the middle on. But from what I am both seeing and hearing, Rabbit, you've been meeting Turtle where they're at for a number of years, which has been past the middle and much further to the side of what Turtle needs.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Would you agree, Turtle?

Turtle:             Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. And so the problem with that is, first of all, that's life. Who amongst us in a long-term relationship has not done that? And I'm sure, Turtle, you're doing that for Rabbit in other topics, right? But because you have been compromising way past the middle, it's fair that you—and reasonable; it's human—that you're not like, "Okay. Meet me where I am. Give me what I need," because the pendulum swings. It doesn't gently go to neutral.

                        And so my concern for the two of you is that I struggle to believe that nonmonogamy or polyamory would authentically work for Turtle, and then we could have massive resentments and problems there if, Turtle, you're not okay with it and, Rabbit, you do go out and get some. And then, Turtle, if you go out and hook up with other people but you're not hooking up with your partner, that's, I mean, expulsion from the garden shit, if I'm—am I correct about that, Rabbit?

Rabbit:            I'd like to say no. Like, go get it. Go get it. Get turned on. Get that need met. And if that generates something between us, that's great.

Jessica:            What if it doesn't?

Rabbit:            If it doesn't generate something between us, but we're both getting our sexual needs met elsewhere, I'm fine with that.

Jessica:            Interesting.

Rabbit:            Am I lying? Am I lying?

Jessica:            I was just thinking those exact words—are you lying to yourself, not are you lying.

Rabbit:            Probably.

Jessica:            I'm going to say probably, too.

Rabbit:            Okay.

Jessica:            And let me tell you why I'm going to say that: because you are at a point where you're fucking desperate to get your needs met, and you're doing—you know when you're a kid and you're like, "Okay, okay, okay. Just ten more minutes. Just ten more minutes, and then I'll go to sleep"? I have a hard time believing that you are that altruistic and that you could open up a 14-year-relationship in that way.

Rabbit:            Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah—which doesn't mean you couldn't. I don't know. But if, in fact, the two of you are in a romantic relationship and you don't have much sex with each other, but you do have sex with other people, I mean, you know what? That does work for some people. Again, your Mars/Pluto conjunction and your Venus/Neptune conjunction make me feel that it is unlikely to work for the two of you as a team, and it could lead to some major problems.

Rabbit:            Yeah. I hear that. I hear you.

Jessica:            Yeah. So, that said, if you do ever open up the relationship—which I am not advising, but if you did—I would recommend that the two of you have very strict and clear rules. Now, Turtle, I know how you feel about rules. You love them. You embrace them. I'm joking. You don't embrace them.

Turtle:             Haha.

Jessica:            Okay. That said, there would have to be boundaries and rules around what kind of people you could hook up with, whether or not, Turtle, you would hook up with other people, what the parameters of that would be. You'd have to really have difficult conversations. You'd have to have check-ins. I'm not saying it's impossible, but looking at this chart, I would recommend prioritizing working within the relationship and bringing this to a greater place of healing before opening up the relationship. And then, if you open up the relationship, it's not for sustenance and survival; it's for extra fun and dynamism in your life, or other reasons and such.

                        But, Rabbit, you are at this place where you just really, really need this part of your life to be activated again.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            You do. And I wish I had an answer to that. But I can say you cannot continue to make this compromise forever. And, Turtle, that's not a threat to you. And I could feel something inside of you feel like you're being threatened or something like that. It's not about that. It's just, in the same way that Rabbit can hold space for you recognizing, "I have trauma, and I have blocks. And this is not where I'm at," it's important that you hold space without making it about you that Rabbit has compromised for many years and has been a really great teammate on this, actually. But it's shifted out of a place where that's healthy. Does that feel right, Rabbit? Because I'm speaking on your behalf.

Rabbit:            Yeah. Yeah, it does.

Jessica:            Yeah. And I am deeply rooting for the two of you because you have so much going for you as a team. Unfortunately, Turtle, a lot of this is on your shoulders, which is your least favorite thing to hear, eh?

Turtle:             Eh.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Turtle:             It's okay, though. I mean, look at the compromises Rabbit has been making for us.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Turtle:             So yeah. I'm okay.

Jessica:            Okay. Good. I'm really glad to hear that. And also, do your best to stay connected to that—not to hold on to it. That's Saturn. It's to stay connected to that. That's Neptune. And that's where you're going to find your body and your willingness to have adventure, which is really what reconnecting in this body, in your relationship with your partner, is. It has to be an adventure because the last time you were feeling super fluid in your body, you had a different body, I'm guessing, in many ways.

Turtle:             Yes.

Jessica:            Menopause is no fucking joke, for real.

Turtle:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And are you in perimenopause yet, Rabbit?

Rabbit:            I think so. I don't have confirmation, but I think so.

Jessica:            I mean, they never give confirmation.

Rabbit:            No. They don't know what they're doing.

Jessica:            No. They don't know what they're doing. They don't know what they're doing. Okay. I want to just slow down. I want to tell you something and then hold space for questions. So the transits to your relationship chart that are occurring in 2026—we've got Uranus sitting opposite to your Mercury and your Jupiter, and then it'll come for your Venus. That means your relationship is changing. Uranus governs freedom, autonomy, authenticity, in many ways, individuality. And in a relationship chart, it shakes things up. And the way you were to the question, it was like, "Do we need to have less cats? Do we need to move?"

                        Uranus is hitting your fourth house, so it's impacting your housing. It's part of why I asked earlier—one of the first questions I asked was how much of the issues you're going through have to do with living together. Sex with your roommate can be super hot, or it can be super boring, right? Because it's like there's habits at home. There's habits at home.

                        So I want to acknowledge that Uranus opposing your Mercury, your Jupiter—and then after that will come your Venus—is exactly what you would want to help you to make changes in the relationship. But if you do not actively, as a team—and we know, Turtle, this is a little bit like nudge-nudge on you, right?

Turtle:             Right.

Jessica:            But as a team, if the two of you do not make changes, then Uranus will force those changes upon you. That's generally how that shit goes. And here's the evidence. Uranus is—has been for the last year—sitting opposite your Sun. It's still active. It's over at the end of March, the Uranus opposition to your composite Sun. And it's been happening all year, so you've been feeling this pressure all year in your relationship. "Things have to change. We as a couple are different." Right? That's what that Uranus opposition to the composite Sun does.

                        Then it's going to affect your communication and your willingness and ability to have fun and have growth experiences together and then your relationship kind of at its core, the love there. This is not going to go away on its own. It's not going to get better on its own. It's going to take intentionality and a willingness to try new things. And that's a lot of pressure. If you hear it that way and if it feels that way, then it's pressure. But it's also just fucking life, you know? It is life.

                        And you have been, in your relationship chart, 2022 through 2024—end of 2024, so early 2025—your relationship chart was going through a Neptune square to the Moon in the fifth house. This is a boner killer. It's really hard on sex. It can make you feel really romantic and loving and a spiritual connection that's really valuable as a couple, but it's not randy. That, a little bit, overlaps with the Uranus opposition to the Sun, where all of a sudden, Rabbit, your needs came online hard and fast. You needed change. It was, again, like a slow percolation, and now it's a boil. Now it's going to just be like Uranus, Uranus, Uranus.

                        So it's time for change. And on a core level, this is, at this point, about compatibility. I think that provokes anxiety for both of you. That's fair. And also, if you're willing to continue trying new things—or start trying new things, depending on what's really going on here—you will both be exploring what works for you and what's authentic for you as individuals and reconnecting as a couple on this level.

                        And honestly, you have a really great relationship in so many ways. I think this issue is just intimidating because it's threatening. And that's Mars/Pluto conjunction for you. It is a threatening issue. So I want to just pause myself and see, does that provoke any kind of questions or things you would want me to speak to?

Turtle:             I think it's—would—is it our [indiscernible 00:58:32]? Is it our nest? Would like a Diego-Frida kind of relationship, like living arrangement—

Jessica:            Tell me what that living arrangement was.

Turtle:             They had separate houses with a bridge across.

Jessica:            I mean, who doesn't love that?

Turtle:             Right?

Jessica:            Living the dream. Living the dream.

Turtle:             Right.

Jessica:            Is that something you want, Rabbit?

Rabbit:            I mean, yeah, that sounds appealing. I mean, that's kind of the question we're exploring, is would space in our living arrangement allow us to maintain the elements of our relationship that are aligned and feel good while also giving us a bit more freedom, like somatic freedom from the needs of the other person?

Jessica:            Interesting. And are you feeling pressed by Turtle's need outside of this issue of sex?

Rabbit:            No, but I think Turtle has needs around the living environment and the energy and the space that are also ways in which I feel like I somatically hold and carry myself intentionally in our shared spaces. And I would like a bit more somatic freedom—you know.

Jessica:            Yeah. That's real. As a loud, spontaneous, banana person, I get it. I am constantly screaming and freaking out my partner. So I totally get it. Okay. So you have a Uranus conjunction to the IC in your relationship chart. Changing up your living arrangement is a clear green light. That could absolutely be helpful. But does that put an undue financial burden on one of you?

Rabbit:            Yeah. It would be—we'd have to figure that out, but I think we could.

Jessica:            Okay. This is the thing. I have an enthusiastic yes. Living separately—that's a great thing you can change in your relationship to create change. Change begets change. Here's the big, fat "but." Here's the "but." The "but" is, if that's the only change you're making, it's not going to work.

Turtle:             Right.

Jessica:            So it just means date nights are an inevitability, right? You make plans. It means one of you is going to be changing a lot of things while the other one is living in your old life together. I have guesses around which one of you will fly the coop. Which one of you would leave?

Rabbit:            I don't know. I feel like we'd both leave this house, but Turtle, what do you think?

Turtle:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Oh, you would both leave that house and live separate?

Turtle:             I definitely think—yeah.

Jessica:            That's good.

Turtle:             I think we'd need to move from this house.

Jessica:            And do you own this house?

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. So you could rent it out or sell it or something.

Rabbit:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Okay. If you're doing that, if you're both moving out separately, I like that a lot more. So I think that's a great idea. Hold on. Let me just look at this for a minute. Can you say your address to the home you own together?

Rabbit:            [redacted].

Jessica:            So you're not going to sell this house?

Rabbit:            We don't know. We're like—"What do we do with this house?" is kind of where we're at.

Jessica:            Okay. Let me speak to that. I would actually say don't sell this house.

Turtle:             What?

Jessica:            Yeah. And let me say why.

Turtle:             Please.

Jessica:            I don't know if you all want to be landlords. Nothing in this chart indicates that you all want to be landlords. That said, selling your home and moving into separate apartments is a radically different move than being like, "We're both going to try living somewhere else for a while," and having a home together.

Rabbit:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Psychologically, it's a radically different move, and also, financially, it's a radically different move.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            It's a divorce move. And that doesn't mean you would be thinking that way, but that's a little bit closer to what it starts to feel like. You have to get rid of everything. You have to file legal papers. You have separate finances. It's a big move. And again, you could do this in a way that's not at all the divorce move. I feel bad that I put that in your head, in a way. But also, when I look down the barrel, I fear that that's how it's going to land for at least one of you.

Rabbit:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            So I'm curious, could you explore that idea, having practical conversations about what that would practically mean? Because you wouldn't have that anchor of a home together anymore. Do you need to burn that down in order to get the autonomy you both are craving?

Rabbit:            I don't think so.

Jessica:            I don't either. I think you can keep your home, and maybe you have friends that are looking for a rental.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And then bada-bing, bada-boom. Then maybe you lock up some of your shit in the basement, and it's not so dramatic. The changes that are needed are very real. But too much change is just going to then—it's kind of like you've got a migraine, and you're getting your ears pierced. So now you're thinking about the pain of your ears instead of your migraine, but the migraine is still there. You know? Let's not create brand-new problems is what I'm saying.

                        But I do think that living separately is a great idea for a period of time. And it looks like it'll be easier for one of you than the other. Do one of you hate moving, or does one of you hate change more than the other?

Rabbit:            I hate moving.

Jessica:            Okay.

Rabbit:            But I can do it.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. Okay. Turtle, you don't hate moving?

Turtle:             I don't know. I used to move a lot. Now I haven't moved in quite some time. So—

Jessica:            Okay.

Turtle:             —I don't know.

Jessica:            Moving is a lot. It's a lot. It's like changing your café, and it's like, "Is there going to be a laundry machine?" Stupid little things add up. And you've been doing things as a team for—how long have you been living together? You said now 12 years?

Rabbit:            11 years. Yeah.

Jessica:            11 years. Okay. I want you to think about making this shit as easy as possible, okay? Not complicated. As least complicated as possible, recognizing that one of you is probably going to struggle more than the other, not because of anything in your chart but because of reality, because life is not usually symmetrical, right? And what is the role that you want to have in each other's life around this? Are you still very much partners, and you're supporting each other blow for blow? Or are you deciding that you're being more autonomous, and there are some sense of intentionality or boundaries around that?

Turtle:             Hmm.

Jessica:            Yeah. You don't have to have the answers in this moment, but these are the conversations to have if you do decide to live separate. Yeah, it's interesting because, looking at your individual charts, Rabbit's chart—you like adventure and you like excitement, but you actually—that little Capricorn Moon in the seventh house opposite your Ascendant doesn't prefer having your life uprooted.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Changing home stuff is not your happy place, whereas, Turtle, you have this—your Mars/Neptune conjunction does not like to be cajoled for forced to do things. You don't like to be in a position where you have to do something. And yet you understand the boundaries and parameters of what it means to get an apartment, make a change. And that Sun/Jupiter conjunction in your fourth house—moving is actually not that big a deal for you, comparatively, which is so interesting because we've been talking about the ways that one of you is more flexible than the other, and now we're seeing little reversie, reversie.

                        And so I want to just ground you into the realities of how you are different and how different it is likely to feel to you as individuals, and if you are willing to play that out as a team—be intentional about what that actually means—of course, you'll have to adapt a lot. But I am correct in understanding that this is not a breakup move; this is an expand-the-relationship move?

Rabbit:            Mm-hmm.

Turtle:             Correct.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Yes. Okay. I got affirmation from both of you. You're going to have to be really careful. And when I say careful, I don't mean walking on glass. I mean mindful, careful, supportive, intentional, nurturing in this process around where are you nurturing each other's autonomy by backing off, and where are you just listening,  and where are you showing up and being like, "Oh, you can't figure out how to get that shelf up? I'll help you"—or whatever fuck, right—

Rabbit:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            —because it's a good idea and it's a little bit of an ear pierce for a headache.

Rabbit:            Yeah. Yep.

Jessica:            And I would love the two of you to be focused on the headache. And also, I get, Turtle, that you're like, "Fuck. We're focused. We're focused. There's a lot of focus." Right? One more thing. Okay. Rabbit, look at your Mars in Leo. Look at your Mars in Leo, just hanging out in the second house on the verge of the third. You are loud. You are bombastic. You don't just communicate; you communicate with your chest, right?

Rabbit:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Your body is a huge part of how you process information and communicate information. And I want to just acknowledge that if what you're doing is tamping down your energy, that's not a sustainable approach.

Rabbit:            Heard. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Okay. Good. Turtle, I hope you heard it, too.

Turtle:             Yes.

Jessica:            That is not sustainable. Instead, what you can do is manage the sharpness of your reactions—because sometimes that shit gets sharp; am I right?

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. That, edit. But that part of you that is just fucking like Mars in Leo in the third—you're just big; it comes out big, big excited, big like, "Oh my God. I stubbed my toe," big everything—that is who you are, and it's actually—you release through your body so your adrenals don't get backed up.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            That can't be something that you compromise on. I mean, you can compromise on parts of it, like the part where you get sharp or you snap.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            You can compromise on your volume in context, but not always. You're loud.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And, Turtle, I don't know how that sounds to you because it sounds like the two of you have been kind of in agreement that Rabbit should kind of tamp some stuff down. But I don't think one of you should win on the nervous system wheel of life at the other one's expense. That doesn't work. You both need to figure out how to resource yourselves. And so I don't know what this means in practical terms. And the two of you are in couples therapy, right? So I'm not—

Turtle:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            —leaving you completely alone to deal with this. But I do want to really affirm as your astrologer that becoming quiet and calm is a bad goal for you. Okay? It's not like a happiness goal for you.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And also, it's so dysregulating for you to be even-keeled all the time.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. Turtle, do you own noise-canceling headphones?

Turtle:             I do.

Jessica:            Okay. Do you use them?

Turtle:             Apparently not enough.

Jessica:            Yeah. I would lean into them a little bit.

Turtle:             Put my earplugs in more? Okay.

Jessica:            A little bit. Yeah. When you know you're in a mood where you're just like, "I need to not be stimulated," it's better to say—now, Rabbit, you may or may not like this. But I'm going to say, Turtle, it's better to say to Rabbit, "I just need to be in my head," and then put on those damn headphones and be in your head than to gently try to meet Rabbit in the middle and ask Rabbit to tamp down on their energy, because then both of you are compromising. Neither of you are relaxing. Neither of you are restoring. And then there's no real connection occurring.

                        So, instead, lean into those little headphones, and then challenge yourself to take them off after you've enjoyed them. And then be like, "Okay. Can I meet this wild partner I have?" And you're not all wild. You have a Capricorn Moon, Rabbit. I mean, come on—but Cancer Rising. But in the context of this conversation, that's kind of more of what's come up—

Rabbit:            Sure.

Jessica:            —because, Rabbit, this is a time where you're just—you're needing to spring, you know?

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            You're needing to spring. You're needing to be loud. Pluto is still squaring your Mercury, Rabbit, so this is a time for you to have hard conversations and explore challenging dynamics in how you listen and how you communicate. But it isn't a time for repressing your thoughts or your mental health. If you repress under a Pluto transit—I have only disgusting metaphors in my mind, but it's like you're just pushing shit in a can. It's going to come out the other side. You know what I mean? It's not good.

Turtle:             Okay.

Jessica:            That's a gross metaphor. I apologize. I'm sorry. It was awful.

Turtle:             It'll stick with me.

Jessica:            It'll stick with you. There you go. I'm so sorry. But it's not the time for repressing. It's the time for healing. But that's you with your individual therapist. That's you in practice, in conversation with friends, comrades, with your partner. It's not shove it down. That can't be the answer. And, Turtle, I hope you hear it because it won't be the answer. It'll be a long walk on a short pier kind of thing. It's not going to work. And it shouldn't work.

Turtle:             Right.

Jessica:            This is what I'm seeing—I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen for the two of you. I do think the two of you have to traverse through some anxiety-provoking stuff, the unknown. But I actually—I feel like you are very likely to make it through together. It's not an inevitability, but it looks like you have all the pieces there.

For you, Turtle, I want to say creating safety is really important for you, but there comes a point where you need to choose to believe in the safety. It's like you can collect thousands of beads, but until you start stringing them together, you have no jewelry. It was a terrible metaphor for you, but that's what I saw, so that's what you get. Okay? You have a lot of beads. There's a lot of components of you having affirmation and clarity and reaffirmation of your safety. But you're not integrating it. You haven't done that yet. You haven't integrated it. You haven't chosen to practice it, which you just don't have experience with yet, so it's scary. But it is your assignment.

And, Rabbit, your assignment at this time and in this situation is so much to be honest with yourself about what you can and can't do in a healthy way and to not be so eager to be accommodating and to find the middle, like a Libra stellium, that you—sorry; I didn't say those words before, but they felt like they had to be said—but that you don't lose track of the things that make you love yourself. You've got so much fucking Solar energy. You've got so much juj up in there. That is a tricky thing for you to be willing to compromise. And it's a good thing for you to ask yourself why you would be willing to. Accountability and responsibility and being a good partner—you prize those things, Rabbit, so intensely.

Rabbit: Yeah.

Jessica:            And I don't want to get in the way of that. I fucking love those things, and I love them for you. And also, it is your job to hold space inside of yourself for your worthiness, for being nurtured and supported, and for there to be space for you. And that's not easy for you. You come across like it's easy for you to people a lot of times because of all that Solar energy you run and you ride. But your little Capricorn Moon and your Sun/Saturn conjunction is fooling no one in this room.

                        And so you being willing to take it for the team and do the thing—it's a gift, but when it comes at your own expense, it stops being a gift that you can give.

Rabbit:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And so I believe that this relationship can hold these fucking deep challenges because I believe that in relationships, we have one of two different kinds of problems. We have the problems that pull us away from alignment and the problems that bring us closer to alignment. And the problems that both of you are having are the problems that pull you closer to alignment. And so what each of you is kind of requiring of the other is necessary.

                        And, Rabbit, part of what this relationship is requiring of you is that you don't pretend your needs aren't your needs. You don't say, "Okay. I'll skip dinner so I can have dessert," because you actually are craving dinner, too.

Rabbit:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And that's okay, even if you don't get your needs met right away, even if it's complicated for Turtle to hear that. Giving yourself the space is your assignment. What Turtle does with that is Turtle's assignment. This is like a really hard Libra stellium challenge. "I can be where I am and let Turtle be where they are." That's what I needed to say to the two of you before we ended.

Rabbit:            Thank you so much. Thank you so, so much.

Turtle:             Thank you, Jessica.

Jessica:            It was such an honor. And take really good care of each other and yourselves.