September 10, 2025
561: Understanding Men
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Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.
Jessica: Capoosi.
Capoosi: Hi.
Jessica: Hi.
Capoosi: Hi, Jessica.
Jessica: Hi. I think we're going to do a reading together. Are you ready to do the reading together?
Capoosi: I am as ready as I will be.
Jessica: Okay. Tell me what you want to do the reading about.
Capoosi: So I wrote a question that I'm just going to read. "Hi, Jessica. I fear I'm chronically overunderstanding of men—deep sigh and eyeroll. I know this is conditioned through cultural and institutional norms but also feels tied to lineage and family dynamics. I love men, but when I'm in relationship with them, I often find myself stuck between respecting myself and understanding them. How do I hold the nuance and gray space of being in relationship while moving with self-sovereignty?"
Jessica: I love this question.
Capoosi: [crosstalk]
Jessica: Oh, sorry.
Capoosi: Yeah. No, I have to thank your triple Capricorn support and then wondered, do you have beef with Leos?
Jessica: I love Leos.
Capoosi: Okay.
Jessica: I love Leos. Do you think I have beef with Leos?
Capoosi: I don't know. I sense a—when you talk about Leo Season, sometimes it's with a drama attached that I [crosstalk].
Jessica: Interesting.
Capoosi: That's what I feel.
Jessica: You know, the only other zodiac sign that has asked me if I had beef with them is Cancer, which I get, because I'm a triple Capricorn. So I get why a Cancer would be like, "Are you attacking me?" Also, Cancers often will be like, "Are you attacking me?" But you're the first Leo to ask me that. No, I love a Leo. But you know Leo Season—it's, like, hot.
Capoosi: It's hot.
Jessica: It's supposed to be hot.
Capoosi: Hot and [crosstalk].
Jessica: Yeah. It's hot. You know what I mean? And maybe as a control freak Capricorn, I'm like, "It's hot. Be careful. I'm cold." I don't know. Maybe I'm unconsciously doing that. But no, no beef. Let's focus on your question.
Capoosi: I know. I don't want to.
Jessica: I know. You did a great redirect. You had me on the back foot. I enjoyed it. Okay. I think it's really interesting the way you asked this question. It's between self-understanding and understanding men—no. You said self-sovereignty and understanding men. So my question for you—and you're in a relationship, right?
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: With a human man?
Capoosi: Human man.
Jessica: Okay. Great. So my question for you is, when you refer to understanding men, you're not actually talking about understanding men because understanding men isn't the problem; it's—do you then prioritize the needs or the preference of the man?
Capoosi: Yes. Yes.
Jessica: Okay. So it's not just, "I'm understanding where he's coming from." It's, "I deprioritize where I'm coming from and prioritize where he's coming from."
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: Okay. So let's call it what it is because when you call it what it isn't, it's really hard to deal with. Sorry.
Capoosi: I know.
Jessica: Now we're going to pull up your chart. You were born August 13th, 1991, in Philly, 10:31 a.m. There's a lot to say here, but the first thing that came up for me when I read your question was about this thing that I already asked you. You're calling it understanding, but you're really talking about prioritizing, right?
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: And so do you have in your family history—and I'm not talking about in your parents' childhoods, but in your background, were you kind of taught that if you get where the other person is coming from, the kind thing to do is to center their perspective and just fucking—you be the big person, and you do what they need done for them?
Capoosi: I don't know that it was because it was kind, but I did learn to center other people's experiences in order to maintain something in myself. Yeah.
Jessica: And it wasn't just men? It wasn't like you're doing it for your dad; you're doing it for your brother. You were doing it for your mom; you were doing it for females as well?
Capoosi: I think yes. I think I was doing it for both. I think I also did it around my mom, as well, but not as much.
Jessica: And do you do it with your friends?
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: Okay. So you do it with everybody is what you're telling me.
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: Okay. But with men, it's like a whole other thing because you're a woman in a relationship with a man, and it can sting in a different way, right? It's wrapped up in patriarchy, and it can feel really disempowering.
Capoosi: Yes. It just feels more pervasive and consistent.
Jessica: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And also, there's historical/societal backdrop of deferring to men. And not only you slip into it—men slip into it, because we all slip into it, right?
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: Okay. So you're a double Libra, Moon and Ascendant in Libra.
Capoosi: I am.
Jessica: So Libra. And I think that this is like—it gives you this inclination to be like, "Well, what do you need? I'm cool. What do you need? How can I help you? Wait, you want to have pizza? Okay. Fine. I'm cool with pizza. I'll just take Lactaid. It's fine." And also, you are a glorious Leo whom I adore. Your Sun is conjunct Jupiter, so you come across as a fucking bright light. Jupiter expands the Sun. So you don't come across as a wallflower or somebody who defers to a partner. You come across as bold and opinionated and just kind of full of life, which is a little bit of the rub for you here because you know you're making compromises out of some sort of really deep reflex as opposed to because you believe it's the right thing for you in that moment.
Capoosi: Yes. What I've noticed in my relational patterns is, yes, and big, "Hi. I'm here. Let's do it. We're having fun." And yeah, there is an undertow of concessions that I'm making that nobody knows about until I snap and throw it all away and burn it to the ground.
Jessica: Sure. I love a good bonfire. I do love a good bonfire. I am not going to get mad at you for that because—let's talk about this. You have Pluto square your Sun and Jupiter, and that Pluto square to Sun and Jupiter makes you hyperaware of power. And so you like a powerful man. You like a man who's big in all the ways.
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: In all the ways, girl.
Capoosi: I love it.
Jessica: Yeah, you know, size queen. Sun conjunction to Jupiter, Pluto square, size queen in all the ways. Okay. Respect. Here's the "but." You love the beginning where you get to be big and bold, and he's big and bold, and it's this meeting. And everything is fucking exciting and hot, as we were talking about with Leo, right?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Everything's hot. And then time goes on, and shit gets more real, and concessions have to be made, and moods happen and compromises and all the things. And then your true emotions—your Moon in Libra—comes online. And your Moon isn't just in Libra; it's conjunct the Ascendant from the twelfth house. So you are incredibly sensitive. So, if you're with this big, powerful guy and he's constantly shoving down his emotions because he doesn't know how to handle them, at first, your Pluto square to Jupiter and the Sun is like, "I know how to make him like me. I will know his emotions before he does and make it easy for him to be around me." Take care of him.
And again, that's hot. It's powerful, and you are caring for somebody and meeting them in the middle, and it's great—until you've been dating them for three and a half months. And after about three months, so once we hit about three and a half months, you're like, "Wait a minute. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. I'm just taking care of this person. He doesn't know me. If I don't take care of him, what happens? If I don't meet him where he's at, I don't even know what happens." And then it doesn't feel like an empowered move anymore. It starts to feel like a maintenance thing. So then it starts to feel powerless.
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: And this is not exclusive to men or dating at all. But like you said, it's just like, of course, it comes up more with men and dating than with anyone else because your female friends will be like, "What are you doing? I'm sensitive to emotions, too. Let's talk about it." Right?
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: Yes. And on top of it, you've got Mars sitting in Virgo in the twelfth house. And so were you raised with religion?
Capoosi: Catholic. Yeah.
Jessica: Okay. And in a very patriarchal household or community?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Yeah.
Capoosi: Oh yeah.
Jessica: Because you were raised being told very clear, "You get to be big, as long as you're not bossy. You get to be fun, as long as you know when to shut up."
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: And this was just straight-up fucking misogynistic—whether it was conscious or unconscious, it was just patriarchal bullshit.
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: And because you do have such a naturally big personality, people don't know this about you. They don't even believe it when you tell them that this is how you are, unless they really have gotten to know you.
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: It's why you worded your question as, "I place understanding men over self-sovereignty," when what you're really doing is being of service to men instead of self-sovereignty. It's like prioritizing them. So it's not really about understanding. You have a Venus/Mercury conjunction in Virgo. You understand men. You understand women. You understand Nonbinary people. You're good at understanding if you set your mind to try to figure things out. You have empathy. You have intelligence. You're great at understanding. That's actually not your problem. It's your own willingness to stay present with the feelings of risking them not liking you when you don't prioritize putting their perspective first.
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: So let's unpack this in the context of your current relationship because it's active. How long have you been with this guy?
Capoosi: Four months.
Jessica: (laughs) Sorry.
Capoosi: [indiscernible 00:10:53] I said, "Stop it. That's not right."
Jessica: Yeah, I know. It's rude. It's rude. I'm rude. It's true.
Capoosi: It's so rude.
Jessica: It's rude. It's true. It is true. It's true. It's true. So a couple questions before we dig in. Are you monogamous with this person?
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: And you had the conversation; that's how you know?
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: Okay. Great. And I have to ask, do you have safer sex with this person?
Capoosi: No.
Jessica: How long has that been going on?
Capoosi: Two months.
Jessica: Okay.
Capoosi: Maybe a little under.
Jessica: Before or after the conversation about monogamy?
Capoosi: After.
Jessica: Okay. Okay. Great. And you have something in place to not get pregnant? Sweet Jesus, no.
Capoosi: I know it's not good. It's really, really bad.
Jessica: But you're just thinking like, "Trump and like the whole current U.S. thing is so cool that why not play Russian roulette while we're at it"? No? Is that not your thought?
Capoosi: That's not—yeah. I mean, I guess I am.
Jessica: Mm-hmm.
Capoosi: And also, yeah, I think there is the part of I have never really used safer protection.
Jessica: Interesting.
Capoosi: I know.
Jessica: And never gotten pregnant?
Capoosi: No, I have.
Jessica: Oh, you have. Okay. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Okay. So let's start here. I know it's not where we thought. I didn't think I was going to start here, but we're going to start here. Are you mad at birth control? Do you have a reason—I know you're Catholic. Is there a thing that you have against birth control?
Capoosi: It's not the Catholi- —well, maybe. Maybe it's internalized Catholicism. I think, for me, it was a—I didn't remember to take it all the time. It was oral contraceptives. And then it was also—I feel weird about putting weird hormones in my body, which I guess—I mean, whatever. You're putting another person's body in your body, so what's the difference?
Jessica: What about an IUD? Are you mad at those?
Capoosi: I've never tried. I don't know that I like the idea of someone cutting open my body and then putting a foreign object in there.
Jessica: Just, like, sticking it in there.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: They don't cut it open. They pop it in.
Capoosi: Oh. What goes in your arms? That's what I'm—
Jessica: I don't know. That's a different one. I'm talking about—they have copper IUDs.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: So copper IUDs don't release hormones. And then there's a hormonal IUD. Now, listen. Some people find them very uncomfortable. Some people love them. Some people swear by them. Some people hate them. But I think that if we're talking about this larger conversation of—do you prioritize your own welfare or not? If you're not trying to get pregnant in Marjorie Taylor Greene's America with a guy you've been dating for four months, then maybe you should do something to—because babies don't come from fate, right?
Capoosi: That's fair.
Jessica: Sperm and egg. Sperm and egg.
Capoosi: Sperm and egg.
Jessica: So I do want to kind of ground you into this because this is actually not just a place where it's like, okay, we have a common-sensey issue we've come upon right away, but it's also like—do you feel the feelings in your body right now?
Capoosi: No. Like, feelings how? I feel the physiological sensations, but feeling of, like—yeah. Okay, there it is. I feel a little embarrassed.
Jessica: Okay. Okay. Is there some anxiety in your stomach?
Capoosi: Yes, definitely anxiety in the stomach.
Jessica: Okay. Okay. That's what I was picking up on because the anxiety in your stomach—it might be a little bit about embarrassment, like, "Shit. I don't want my fucking psychic looking at me not having safer sex and having"—okay. Fair. Fair, fair, fair. But there's something else there, which is—I think this anxiety in your stomach is very familiar to you, eh?
Capoosi: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jessica: And it is because you have this very specific thing that comes up where you're just like, "I don't want to take care of myself. I don't know how to take care of myself. I don't know if I should take care of myself. Is this the right way? Is that the wrong way? I don't know what to do. I shouldn't do anything. I don't know what to do." It's this very anxiety-minded thing. It's not super rational, although it's very Virgonian, so it pretends to be rational. But it's very much like—yeah, you could go to a doctor and explore your options and make a choice, but it confronts you with not just the risk you take having sex without a condom, but also how the risk is just yours, ultimately. The guy might hear me say that and be like, "Oh, no, it's my risk, too." But it's absolutely not his body.
Capoosi: Yeah. No.
Jessica: It's your risk alone, right?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: In this particular way. And I'm sorry for imitating the way he speaks. I know I did it perfectly. I nailed it, right? That was his voice exactly. Okay. Okay. So all to say I want to just point to—hang out with there's this thing that you do that you've done your whole adult life, and it does not reflect the love and care you have for yourself.
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: And if we're being honest and realistic about 2025 in the United States, yeah, it's not a really great risk. Let's take all that Leo wisdom of love and courage and apply it to you and not just to me or to him. And so I would encourage you—yeah, safer sex and/or something else. If you're not going to take a pill, IUD is probably your move. And do you have the morning-after pill?
Capoosi: Not on me, no.
Jessica: I recommend that you get a little stockpile of it. Why not?
Capoosi: Okay.
Jessica: Do you know what I mean? Because it's not going to be around forever.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: I mean, they're looking to outlaw all this shit. So there are ways to get it—online, whatever. Get it. Get it.
Capoosi: Okay.
Jessica: Just have it. May you never need it and give it to a friend, but have it so that if you need it, it's on deck, right? And you're cool with taking that? That's in alignment with you?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Okay. Great.
Capoosi: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jessica: Okay. Great. I'm sorry we started there, but we started there.
Capoosi: No, I mean, just go for it. Right?
Jessica: We're doing it. We're just starting—
Capoosi: PSA for everyone.
Jessica: Yeah. Yes.
Capoosi: Don't be like me.
Jessica: Or be like you in the near future where you're going to do the things, right?
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: Yes.
Capoosi: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Jessica: Okay. Okay.
Capoosi: I didn't mean for that to sound like I was not going to do the things. I will.
Jessica: You're going to do the things. You're going to do the things. I mean, listen. My hope for you is that fun is the priority of sex as opposed to negative consequences that you unconsciously flirt with and keep in your life, when there are really simple steps you can take to have sex have much less risk, right?
Capoosi: And that is tied to not putting care into myself and the love into myself.
Jessica: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: So you've got this Mars in the twelfth house. And do you want human babies? Do you want to have babies?
Capoosi: I'm not there yet.
Jessica: Yeah.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: It's a no for now, but you're very open to it being a yes later.
Capoosi: Yes. Yes, yes.
Jessica: That's what it looks like it's always been.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Let me say this. The way that your chart is written, because it does look like you do not want to get pregnant, it's not like—some people are like, "Well, if I get pregnant, I guess it means I was meant to have a baby."
Capoosi: No.
Jessica: You don't want that. You don't want that.
Capoosi: No.
Jessica: And because of that, the lack of care you take to protect yourself from it, from this pregnancy befalling you—it's like a symptom of a lack of centering yourself because anyone who's ever fucked a man knows that they love to do it whatever way they want to do it, and they don't think about the fucking consequences. Am I right?
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 100 percent.
Jessica: Yeah.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: I mean, anyone knows. And I don't want to get an email from a man who's just like, "But I'm not that way." Okay. Sure. Okay. So, that said, this is one of the parts of sex and dating and having free will, is prioritizing your own self-love and self-care and understanding—if we're talking about understanding men, understanding it's very rare that you're going to meet a guy who's like, "I really want to prioritize this issue of not getting pregnant and avoiding all STDs, and so I'm going to wear a condom all the time because I feel like that's important for your health."
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Capoosi.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Yeah. And unless you meet that man and you date that man, it's your job to do that for you. And that shift that I just felt in you is kind of like a sadness and a tiredness.
Capoosi: Yeah. I'm just feeling into my friends that are constantly on me and asking me if I'm using condoms every day. I see them every day, and they're like, "Did we use a condom?" And I'm like, "No." And they're like, "Well, thanks for being honest. And also, danger."
Jessica: Danger. Danger, Will Robinson.
Capoosi: [crosstalk]
Jessica: It's fascinating that—so your girls are just—they're on you about this already.
Capoosi: Oh, 100 percent, yes.
Jessica: Interesting. So you're putting a lot of energy and effort into not taking care of yourself and not prioritizing your own welfare.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: That's interesting.
Capoosi: It appears so.
Jessica: It appears so. Okay. So will you say your full name out loud?
Capoosi: Yeah. [redacted].
Jessica: Oh. Okay. Oh, you have a lot more anxiety than I thought you did. Okay.
Capoosi: I know.
Jessica: You do.
Capoosi: Isn't it shocking?
Jessica: It's visceral. It's visceral. It's so Mars-and-Moon-in-the-twelfth-housey of you. Okay. In the moment, sex feels good. Being wanted feels good. Making something happen feels good. And therefore, you don't want to think about anything other than those things because, for the rest of the time, you're like, "Ahh."
Capoosi: "Ahh." Yeah. Yes. Thank you.
Jessica: You're welcome. You're welcome. It was a technical term. It's a technical term. Any doctor would use it, I'm sure.
Capoosi: Of course.
Jessica: Yeah. So, first of all, to that end, I would definitely try an IUD, not in your arm. IUD—try it. And again, it may or may not fucking work for you, but—because that is something you set and forget. I think they last for like seven years.
Capoosi: Yeah. It's weird.
Jessica: Set and forget.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: But there's something else. There's something else about this. Hold on. You're kind of existing in this cycle of, "I feel pain, and I want to feel pleasure. I feel bad, and I want to feel better." And from that cycle, which is—let's be clear—a survival mode cycle, you have no real motivation to not prioritize the feelings and preferences of your partner because if you prioritize his feelings and preferences that he chooses you and that he likes you and then he's more likely to give you what you want or need—I mean, this is a theory, and it does not play out that way. But that's the theory working at life, right?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: What's going on with this man that you're dating right now? How are things?
Capoosi: Currently, there was a pretty significant rupture. He has a child and didn't tell me. He told me last week.
Jessica: Sweet Jesus.
Capoosi: Yeah. So it's like—
Jessica: So he doesn't take care of his child?
Capoosi: He does. He is two weeks on, two weeks off. And I think what prompted the question here was I was really hurt by the holding of information and what that brought up for me, and also, I do understand not wanting to share all of your identities with somebody when you don't know what's happening or where it's going. You know? And I think we were dating slowly and casually, and then we both took—he went back to where he's from, and I went back to where I'm from and through that time was like, "Oh, this could actually be something." And then, when we came back, he told me. And I was like, one, what the hell? And then, also, I do understand why somebody would do that.
Jessica: Mm-hmm. So he decided to stop using a condom and be monogamous with you a month and a half before he decided to tell you he coparents a child.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Okay. Let's just let that little chubby truth hang out between us.
Capoosi: Chubby truth.
Jessica: I just made it up, but it felt right.
Capoosi: It feels good.
Jessica: It feels good. It feels good. It sits—
Capoosi: Not as aggressive.
Jessica: No, it's not as aggressive. Thank you. So he was willing to risk you getting pregnant, but he wasn't willing to tell you he already got someone else pregnant and he cares for that child.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Okay. That's bullshit. Do you have a best friend?
Capoosi: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I know—yeah. I do.
Jessica: Do you see where I'm going?
Capoosi: I see where you're going.
Jessica: Okay. So, if that happened to her, would it be bullshit or would it be cool?
Capoosi: It's 100 percent trash.
Jessica: Trash.
Capoosi: Off with his head.
Jessica: Off with his head. Okay. So that was way too quick. You understood that way too well. So you know, wow, your capacity to yield, to bend to him is—I mean, what a contrast between your willingness to hunt down and murder the guy who did that to your bestie.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Okay. Okay. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. We're not feeling shame. We're not feeling guilt. We're just bringing in information. So try to breathe into that. Now it's in your solar plexus, and it's hard like a rock. It's just like something in you is tightening up. Try to breathe into it and just kind of meet it. Okay. It's like you're doing it, and then you're pulling back, and then you're doing it, and then you're pulling back. But can you feel that?
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: Okay. So we're just hanging out with truths. We're not judging those truths. We're just hanging out with truths because, yeah, should you tell somebody right away—and how old is this kid?
Capoosi: 13.
Jessica: Oh my God. It's a much bigger lie somehow that it's a teenager. I'm going to tell you why I don't like this shit, okay?
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: I'm going to tell you. He developed all of this intimacy with you. He promised you monogamy, which implies a lot of things, right? He really invested in you without giving you the option before you fell for him to say, "Oh, I can't coparent a 13-year-old child with you, with anyone. I don't want that for my life." He didn't trick you into falling for him, but he tricked you into falling for him.
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: Do you understand what I'm saying?
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: You fell for him because you fell for him, but you fell for him based on him lying to you. This omission of the truth is a lie.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Other omissions of truth are not necessarily lies. This one is a lie. Do we agree, or are you just being agreeable?
Capoosi: Thank you for asking.
Jessica: You're welcome. You're welcome.
Capoosi: I just go back and forth. It feels like, yes, it is a lie in the sense of I can't really understand how you can move through your day caring for another—not a grown being, but a being—
Jessica: A 13-year-old is a whole, entire person.
Capoosi: That's a whole—yeah.
Jessica: Yeah. That person as a phone.
Capoosi: Yes. Yes.
Jessica: That's what I just keep on thinking, is, "That's a person with a phone."
Capoosi: Yeah, like capable, moving through, doing their own thing. And I think about the moments where his behavior was weird, and I was just like, "Whatever. He's kind of a weird guy." You know what I mean?
Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. But now you're like, "Oh, he was probably texting with his kid."
Capoosi: Yeah. And I'm like, "Ah, that's a lie."
Jessica: Yeah. I'm going to reframe this for you. So your bestie—I'm going to call her Sally, okay?
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: Let's not worry about whether or not Jimbo, which is what I'm calling your boyfriend—you're welcome. Let's focus on Sally is dating a guy for four months. Sally is monogamous with this guy. Sally has had all these experiences with this guy. And then Sally finds out just before the four-month anniversary that this guy has a 13-year-old human child that he coparents 50 percent of the time. Do you think that Sally's boyfriend has lied to Sally?
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: Okay. So your problem is not that you're understanding where Jimbo is coming from. Your problem is that you're lying to yourself so you don't have to deal with what Jimbo has done and what it means to you.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Okay. We're just naming problems. If we accurately label the problem, then we can deal with it better, okay?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: You are allowed to say, "Jimbo is a fucking dumbass. He should have fucking told me. I am falling for Jimbo. I'm going to give him another chance." But your problem is you're not owning that Jimbo chose to lie to you and to—it's not a single lie. It's not like he's like, "I don't own a sports car," right?
Capoosi: Yeah. No.
Jessica: That would be a lie. "Oh, I have a motorcycle whenever I'm not around you, and you think motorcycles are dangerous." That would be a serious lie. Okay. But this is a human, plus he's constantly, I'm assuming, in relationship with his ex. For him to not give you more of a shot to assess whether or not this was something you wanted to take on—because you don't have to want to date a guy with a kid. You don't have to want to date a guy with a grown-ass kid, because a 13-year-old requires a lot of care and attention and is going to have very strong feelings about their dad's girlfriend.
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: You don't have to want that for yourself. And that doesn't mean you're a bad person, and it doesn't mean anything about Jimbo. It means something about you. And any man who can lie this big can lie this big. Do you know what I'm saying? And I feel like you've said that kind of a thing to your female friends—
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: —which is why you're lying to yourself about it now, because you're like, "I don't want Jimbo to be a fucking liar. And what's why you asked me the question now, even though—okay. Okay. I'm going to have you think his full name at me as loud as you can. Just scream it at me.
Are you in love with him?
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: Yeah. Have you used the L-word?
Capoosi: Mm-mm.
Jessica: Has he?
Capoosi: Mm-mm.
Jessica: Okay. And you fall in love big and fast, yeah?
Capoosi: All the time.
Jessica: Yeah. Okay.
Capoosi: Not all the time, but when it happens, it happens.
Jessica: No, no, but—yeah. And some people are like, "Oh, I rarely fall in love." You're not that person.
Capoosi: No.
Jessica: No. Yeah. Your capacity for love is huge. But so is your capacity for devastation.
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: So okay. Your biggest problem is that you're lying to yourself. Your biggest problem is that you're lying to yourself about who he is and how you feel about what he's done. If you were more honest with yourself, you would have another biggest problem. And that other biggest problem is you would have to deal with the fact that you're furious with him. And that doesn't mean you want to break up with him, and it doesn't mean that you don't love him in the ways that you do. And I would say that you love him in a way that is not based on knowing him that well, right?
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: Because clearly you don't know him that well.
Capoosi: Yeah. That's what I think feels like the most harmful for me, is I feel like I'm just meeting him.
Jessica: Yeah.
Capoosi: And that feels—like, I see him and feel him so much clearer, and I also just feel like, "So then what the fuck were the last few months, man? What were we doing?"
Jessica: Yeah.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: It's a very bad sign, okay? Okay? Let me just say you're correct in being concerned. The depth and pervasiveness of his deception and omission is a very fucking bad sign.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: It's not just a bad sign because why doesn't he love and care for his 13-year-old enough that he leads with that as part of his identity—"I'm a dad." Why isn't that a part of how he presents himself to women that he's dating? Because women don't like dads? That's not a thing.
Capoosi: That's not a thing.
Jessica: That's not a thing. I mean, you—
Capoosi: I love a dad.
Jessica: Okay. You love a dad. Okay.
Capoosi: I love a dad.
Jessica: All right. Even if you personally didn't, you would not be a great representative of all women. What is wrong in there that that's not a part of his identity?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: That's weird, right? There's something off there. The amount of times he had to omit, straight-up lie, or bend truths for the last several months—that's fucking weird. To what end? And now you know that your relationship is based on not the real him, because the real him is a dad for the last 13 years, which is since he was 21?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: That's his whole life. That's his whole adult life.
Capoosi: I know.
Jessica: How could he have left all that out? With all the stories he told you about the things he does, how could he have left that out?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: So being an empathetic person means you can identify with empathy where he was coming from and what he was thinking and what he was feeling. You can identify, okay, he says it's because, "I don't know you; I didn't know where things were going." You have to know that's partially a lie. Do you know that?
Capoosi: Well, do I know it or am I choosing not to see it, I think, is the frank question.
Jessica: Correct. Yeah.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Mm-hmm, because if Sally was in the same position, you would know it.
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: Okay. We are complex, right?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Whatever the fuck is in Jimbo's mind is only known by Jimbo. Okay. Fine. But ultimately, you don't get a Pluto square to the Sun and be casual about honesty, period.
Capoosi: No.
Jessica: Right?
Capoosi: No.
Jessica: For you, one of the most important things with men is that he doesn't walk away from a fight, and he's fucking honest. And you can fight, right? You can fight? Can you fight?
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: Yeah. You can fight. To you, somebody who's willing to stick around is so important. And Jimbo has this vibe like he's a good guy who sticks around. And had he told you from the fucking onset, "I'm a 50 percent parent of a teenager," you would have had more evidence that he's a stick-around kind of guy. But instead, you have evidence that he's able to separate out his identities and lie to you in a myriad of ways without you having a fucking clue. What a good liar Jimbo is. You are allowed to be heartbroken by that. You're allowed to be fucking pissed and sad.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And if you're not angry, then you've got to know that you're doing what you call "understanding him" too much and what I call lying to yourself.
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: It is possible to have both empathy and criticism at the same time. It is possible for you to say to yourself, "I don't genuinely believe he's a bad guy and he had a nefarious reason for doing this. And I do genuinely believe that what he did was cruel, and he's proven to me that he's an excellent liar and I had no clue." And that's a bad foundation.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Maybe, at the end of the day, you will decide it's not an impossible foundation. You're allowed to make stupid choices, okay? You're allowed to do whatever you want. What I don't want you to do is lie to yourself about it. So, if you decide, "Listen. All signs point to this guy is not honest. This guy is prioritizing his own comfort over my needs and my ability to make choices in a relationship at the beginning of the relationship."
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And you want to give him another chance. Be honest with yourself that you're doing that, that that's what's happening and that's what you're choosing. You don't need to feel shamed if you do that, because if you lie to yourself, then you're disempowered. Then you take the magic of the Sun/Jupiter conjunction—and that is a fucking magic aspect, right? You manifest connections with people. You do. You have love for yourself and with people. But then what you're doing with that magic is you're balling it up in your fist, and you're making it as small as possible for yourself, when it can be big.
And so a great way to practice not being small is being honest with yourself about what you're experiencing and what you're feeling. And then you can keep on making stupid choices if you want to make stupid choices or smart choices if you want to make smart—whatever that is. But if you lie to yourself about what's happening, then you're disempowered. Then you're small from the get. Does he think it's a big deal?
Capoosi: I don't know that he thinks it's a big deal. I don't know what he thinks about it. I know that he's communicating that it's fucked up and that he shouldn't have done that, and he wishes he didn't. Yeah.
Jessica: Has he apologized?
Capoosi: Well, I was thinking about it the other day because he says, like, "I apologize," which, to me, feels different than, "I'm sorry."
Jessica: "I apologize" is like, "I'm ticking the box."
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: "I'm saying I apologize." He's not like, "Hey, Capoosi, I did something that was really hurtful, and I really actually care about you, and I realize I shouldn't have done that." He has not done anything like that, eh?
Capoosi: No.
Jessica: Okay. Here's my rule for relationships. I got a lot of rules. This is one of them. If you and I are in a relationship and we don't agree on what the problem is, we will never agree on a solution, right?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: He doesn't believe that it's that big a deal—"Yeah, it was fucked up. I apologize"—which means he doesn't think it's that big a deal that he lied to you so extensively.
Capoosi: Do you think if I was honest with myself about what a big deal it actually is and then communicated that to him, he would think it's a bigger deal?
Jessica: Do you? I mean, I'll answer that question, but genuinely, do you think he'll think it's a bigger deal?
Capoosi: I don't know.
Jessica: Do you think you're the first woman in 13 years he's done this to?
Capoosi: Yes, because that's what he said.
Jessica: He said that every other woman he's dated in the last 13 years, he has told them that he has a child, but you are the first and only woman he's so efficiently lied to?
Capoosi: He has—well, when you say it like that—
Jessica: (laughs) Sorry.
Capoosi: He said that it's out of character for him.
Jessica: Okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Jimbo said, "This is out of character for me," and from that, you extrapolated every other woman he's dated in the last 13 years he told he had a child to?
Capoosi: I don't—there's a middle ground between those, I think. I don't know if I have decided every other woman. I also was just like—
Jessica: Okay. I'm going to interrupt you. You're not supposed to decide his truth. You're supposed to ask him.
Capoosi: Fair.
Jessica: And then he tells you. You shouldn't even have to fucking ask him, because here's the thing: in my experience, when people, let's say, have sex without a condom, they don't just do it with one person; it's a pattern. Right?
Capoosi: Oh, right. For sure. For sure.
Jessica: Similarly, when people—oh, I don't know—lie about their whole life and identity and ignore the fact that they have a child that they care for, they don't just do it flippantly and once. And if they do it flippantly and once, they exhibit a lot more guilt and accountability, maybe shame, emotionality. But he seems like he's kind of a pro in how he's acknowledging it but not wanting to lament it. "Let's just keep on going. It's not that big a deal. I mean, it was wrong, but let's keep going." That seems a little practiced, a little pro, no?
Capoosi: I didn't think about it like that, but yeah. I think I initiated space-taking, which didn't last long. It's not my forte.
Jessica: It's not your forte.
Capoosi: It's not good. I don't really understand—it feels good, and then I'm like, "All right. Whatever." And then, yeah, it kind of just felt like things were just moving at a regular pace.
Jessica: I have a question.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Have you ever dated a cheater?
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: Mm-hmm. Is dating cheaters kind of a pattern?
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: Mm-hmm. Is this a form of cheating?
Capoosi: It's a form of dishonesty.
Jessica: Mm-hmm.
Capoosi: I don't know that I—yeah.
Jessica: To me, there's different layers of cheating. There's the part where it's like you put your body parts in or near places that we had an agreement they wouldn't go, okay? There's the sexual part and the threat to your sexual safety.
Capoosi: Right.
Jessica: The other part of cheating, and the part that really fucking gets me, is the lying.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: It's you and another person know something that you're actively lying to the person that you've promised to be honest with. That, to me, is the thing about cheating. Cheating is not just about a physical or sexual act. It's about having intimacy with other people that you lie to your partner about. That's the fucking rub. Sometimes people do shit. They get loaded or mistakes happen, and it's a one-off, and they tell you right away. And that feels really different than somebody who's just having an intense flirtation with someone over time, and they can talk about you. I don't know what sounds worse to you, but I know what sounds worse to me.
All to say we remove the sexual component, but the other part is part of the pattern of him not being a safe person because he was able to have intimacies with other people and completely keep you out of that loop and lie to you about it. It does not bode well, this lying. You know this, right?
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: It does not bode well. Who Jimbo seemed like he was was great—not without problems or red flags, if we're being honest.
Capoosi: For sure.
Jessica: Okay.
Capoosi: For sure.
Jessica: But it was great. It was fun. This man is assuring you that he can lie to you without you knowing about it and then not express too much remorse once it comes out. Now you know this about him. There's a lot of things you don't know. This you know. We can call this factual. This is kind of your worst nightmare.
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: Mm-hmm. And the fact that you're kind of in your worst nightmare, and you're like, "Yeah, but I get where he's coming from, and I'm not even sure if it's that bad," is really important for you to hear. Your desire for love and connection is so deep. But if it costs you love and connection with yourself, it will never work.
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: I'm sorry. And this guy—he is not prioritizing your well-being, and I don't like it.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And I'm guessing your girls—do your friends know about this?
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: Okay. Are they thumbs-up, thumbs-down?
Capoosi: One is like, "This is absolute garbage."
Jessica: Okay.
Capoosi: And then the others are kind of holding the nuance, but I haven't—I've told them, "I want your unfiltered opinion," and we haven't had those discussions yet because I'm still processing on my own.
Jessica: It's also hard to tell your friend who you know is going to go back to the guy, "Don't go back to the guy," because then your friend doesn't want to talk to you, right? That's real. We've all been there, right?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Listen. You can keep on dating him. You can keep on fucking him. You can do whatever you want. You actually have the right to do anything you want to do. And there's nothing wrong with wanting him. But you are in a really intense time in your life. And what you want more than anything is true companionship.
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: And you can't cultivate that with somebody who's—the foundation of your relationship is predicated on a meaningful lie. And honestly, that's not even digging into the fact that—let's say you're together in six months or whatever—Christmas comes and you're still together. Then what? Are you the kind of coparenting vibes with this man over a 13-year-old?
Capoosi: I don't know that I've actually sat with it in a body-based way. I think I've cognitively thought about it and been like—I mean, I could do it, you know, but I—
Jessica: Every child's dream.
Capoosi: Right. Right. And I think, for me, that feels so far out to me, the comfortability of where I would need to be with him in order for that to even be a thought.
Jessica: Yeah. Let's pull him out of the conversation for a minute.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Jimbo aside, do you like hanging out with 13-year-olds?
Capoosi: Sometimes. Right now, in my internship, I hang out with 13-year-olds quite a bit, and I'm like, "It's great. Love it."
Jessica: Fun. Okay. Great. And do you have any interest in any coparenting dynamic or stepmothering dynamic? Is that something you're open to or down for?
Capoosi: I could be, yeah. I don't know that I had imagined it. It's not something that I was looking for, but I also—because I was using the dating apps when I connected—
Jessica: Sure.
Capoosi: —and I never was like, "Oh, I will not go out with somebody that has a child." That was never a thought process.
Jessica: So it's not something you yearn for or you want, but it's also not like a hard no.
Capoosi: Yeah. It's—yeah.
Jessica: Okay. It's something you're open to, based on the situation.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: So, with the right guy—he's honest, he's communicative, everything's good—it could work.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And you saw the trap, a little bit of a trap in there, right?
Capoosi: I did.
Jessica: Yeah. Okay. Cool, cool, cool.
Capoosi: Of course I saw it.
Jessica: Yeah. It was not a subtle one. We're just making sure.
Capoosi: Not at all.
Jessica: We want everyone to hear it, okay?
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: Okay. Cool, cool, cool. Okay. So you're open to it, because this is really important, right? Because part of what burns my hide about what this man has done here is, if you didn't want that or if you were more ambiguous—and it sounds like you're 50 open, 50 not; you're right in the middle, so that's good. But he didn't know that.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Okay. I'm going to slow myself down here. Say your full name out loud again.
Capoosi: Yeah. [redacted].
Jessica: Okay. Pluto is currently conjoined your Saturn. It's a once-in-a-lifetime event, doesn't happen to everyone—very big fucking deal. And it is painful. It is a time in your life where your internal structure as a human being is just being pounded on by Pluto. It's like the assumptions that you have about yourself, the way you've organized your sense of safety and your sense of self, is transforming.
And part of why you're in this relationship at this moment is because either you will choose the path that was prescribed or you by your family of origin—and you know what that path is. It's you being small as hell. It's you being the responsive one, you being the traditional female in this particular way. Or you say, "No. I want a relationship. I want a relationship where we roleplay girl/boy in that traditional way, but everyone is fucking clear that I'm a whole-ass person and he's a whole-ass person, and we are honest with each other, and we take care of each other. I don't take care of him; we take care of each other." I know that is what you want.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And I also see very clearly that you're so scared that you won't get that that you keep on choosing what you don't want.
Capoosi: And telling myself that this is better than what the last one was.
Jessica: Yeah. And you know what? It probably is.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: But better than shitty is not good enough.
Capoosi: Right.
Jessica: Listen. I can promise you nothing.
Capoosi: Right.
Jessica: I know nothing. But you have the chart of a person who could be very successfully married, like very successfully. And my definition of success is you're happy. You're fucking. You're respectful of each other—all the things. Right?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Happy. But you could just as easily re-create a family relationship—I won't name names—that you know you don't want.
Capoosi: Thank you. Yeah.
Jessica: You're welcome. You're welcome. Yeah. And you keep on choosing—have you heard my Deal or No Deal metaphor?
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: You keep on choosing the shitty deal because you're scared that it's the best you'll get. There is no time that you will have feelings for a man and be cavalier about getting rid of him. That's not who you are. You're not cavalier of cutting people out of your life. This man—you have great sex? Yeah. Sorry.
Capoosi: Mm-hmm. I know.
Jessica: It's like emotional sex. It's not just good. It's not just the mechanics. It ticks most of your boxes—not all of them.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Not all of them. Most of them. But I want to say this. You are in a place in your life—and I think you were really clear about this when you asked your question—where you choose him or you choose you. And I don't think that's what your life will always be. I think that's what it's been because you're choosing guys that put you in that position.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: You aren't going to get a whole lot better evidence of his ability to lie to you successfully than what you got already.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: The only other thing he could do is cheat.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: So listen. You can stay with him. Can you trust him and stay with him? I don't know how, unless you have magic abilities to trust somebody who lies to you effectively. Sorry, but you know what I mean?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: I just genuinely don't know how you could trust this man.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And that doesn't mean you don't want to fuck him, and it doesn't mean that you don't have love for him, and it doesn't mean that you don't like him. It just means that he has proven to you that you could not possibly have a romantic relationship with him without abandoning yourself at the foreground, at the very beginning. And you are going through an exceptionally painful period that is testing your willingness to choose yourself. I'm sorry.
Capoosi: And that's everywhere? That's just, like, everywhere?
Jessica: Everywhere in your life [crosstalk]?
Capoosi: Yeah, because it doesn't just—not to—and I don't want this to sound like I want to pivot into—maybe I do want to take a little heat off this, but it does feel like that in other decisions I have to make—
Jessica: Yes.
Capoosi: —in terms of, like, career and path forward and—
Jessica: Yes, 100 percent. It's who you choose to be in the adult world.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: That's what it is. And so this has to do with your relationship to your parents.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: It has to do with the role you play in your family. It has to do with your career and how you show up with coworkers and stuff like that, like the connections you're making and how you're making them. It has to do even with your friendships. But you're friends with women, primarily, eh?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: So it's not that hard for you because you have great relationships with women. That's just like it flows for you.
Capoosi: [crosstalk]
Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. For you, that's not your primary—it's like your easy place, especially compared to all these other things. Sometimes I give readings, and I'm like, "This is about your love life. This is about your sex life." It is not about those things. This is about you.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And you are at your most raw and emotional with men, so it's what we're talking about now. Also, this man is a fucking fool, and he did such a stupid thing and such a hurtful thing that it makes sense that you wrote me an email about this, right?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: As opposed to all the other things we could be talking about in your life right now.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Here's a rule of thumb for you. If a person steps on your toe and you say, "Ow. That fucking hurts," and they say, "Oops. I apologize"—any version of that—just assume they'll do it again. Or maybe they weren't trying to step on your toe, but they don't really care that it hurt your toe. If somebody says, "Oh shit. I didn't mean to do that. I apologize. I'm sorry," that's a different thing.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: You know the difference.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: You are very good at apologizing. You know when you're pretending to apologize, and you know when you're really apologizing. You know the difference, right?
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: I don't like this apology.
Capoosi: I don't like it either, to be honest. And I think that's why I was even questioning the semantics of the "I apologize" versus "I'm sorry," and just the disembodiment I felt, like, receiving it. I was like, "This doesn't feel like you understand or care about how terrible this is for me." And I'm just like, "It's all right. Let's go get cheeseburgers." Like, why are we doing that?
Jessica: That's terrible. That's terrible. That is so awful. That's awful.
Capoosi: I know.
Jessica: Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Okay. Here's the thing. Every single thing a person does is revealing themselves to you. Everything you do is you revealing yourself to them. So, when you say, "It's okay, babe. Let's get a cheeseburger," you're telling him, "You want to walk on me again? That's cool. I don't mind."
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And when he says, "Sorry, babe. That was shitty. Shouldn't have done it," he's saying, "I don't think lying to you is that big a deal." So you're a perfect match. You're willing to be walked all over; he's willing to walk all over you. And the only way we can have our lives be different is when we change first.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Waiting to meet the man who's never thought of lying or cheating—it's not what you're attracted to right now.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: You're actually attracted to guys who lie a lot and cheat and stuff.
Capoosi: I know.
Jessica: I'm so sorry.
Capoosi: [crosstalk].
Jessica: But there's a way to change it, actually, and it's for you to be different. And you can't be different about who you're attracted to, because you don't actually know before you get to know them, right? The way to be different is to choose yourself in situations similar to this one where you have all the evidence you need. And that doesn't mean you couldn't get more evidence. It doesn't mean that more evidence wouldn't be admissible in the court of your heart.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: But it does mean you don't like being fucking lied to. He doesn't think it's a big deal that he lied to you. That could actually just be it. That can actually just be it. And the fact that losing him will be a huge loss for you and that you will fall into a bit of a fucking slump—that is very real, but it's not reason to not go through the loss, because you're already in the shit with him. So, if you stay for another month, if you stay for six more months, if you stay for another day, you're still going to have to go through the loss. And I do see that when you go through loss, it's really deep. It's really intense, and it's really deep.
Capoosi: It's so hard.
Jessica: Yeah. It's awful.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: It's awful. Part of why it has historically been so bad or you is because you're not just mourning the guy; you're mourning how you abandoned yourself and who you chose to be. So the first few times you are not mourning abandoning yourself and you're not mourning who you chose to be, you will be mourning, "Oh my God. Was I a bitch? Oh my God. Did I jump too quick? Oh my God. Did I make a mistake?"—the first few times. And then you'll change.
And the only way to it is through it. There's literally no way to it without going through it. And this guy is a gift from fucking heaven. His behavior is so wildly indefensible. I don't know. You were once 13, right?
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: Would you want your parent to be able to lie about your fucking existence for four months?
Capoosi: No. That's—yeah.
Jessica: That's terrible. It's terrible. And he doesn't think it's that big a deal. And that's just a difference in values. We don't have to do what your friends are going to want to do, which is like, "Fuck him. I can't believe he did that shit"—which I also, to be honest, want to do on your behalf.
Capoosi: I know.
Jessica: But what we can do is actually the healthy thing, which is to say, "That reveals such a big difference in values. And I don't have to say he's wrong and I'm right, but I can say that's wrong for me. That doesn't work for me. And I might understand that, from his perspective, it wasn't a big deal, but from my perspective, it is a big deal. And my perspective is the only one I can live by."
If you break this pattern of centering other people's preferences and needs over your own, what you'll do is go through this incredible kind of depressive loneliness because you'll be breaking through a pattern that women in your family have not yet broken through. And when we do that, it's like fucking walking off a cliff into fog. It's just there are no reassurances. There's no certainties. And it's scary, and it's lonely. It's a unique kind of spiritual or existential scary and lonely. But on the other side of it is just more healthy you. And for you, you're really good at manifesting relationships. Not having options is not your problem.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And so, when you shift what you're in alignment with, you'll just attract better-quality men. And they'll still be fun and have big personalities and be obnoxious in all the ways you enjoy, but not in the ways that make you feel less than or small. And—I mean, I can't promise you that, but I feel pretty confident about it.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: We talked about a lot of fucking heavy things. I still think you should make a doctor's appointment and consider—
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Okay. Okay. Cool, cool, cool, cool.
Capoosi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you.
Jessica: Even if he's out of the picture.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: This is not about him.
Capoosi: No.
Jessica: It's about you.
Capoosi: Right.
Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to just pause myself and give you a minute to fucking breathe and see if you have any other question or any—you know what I mean.
Capoosi: Actually, what I actually have a question—is this feeling in my stomach. What is that? Because I don't actually know, but I know when I feel it. And I don't know if it means burn everything to the ground and run. I don't know if it means I'm just—like, I don't know.
Jessica: And it's that feeling that I was talking about earlier, too, right?
Capoosi: Yeah. It's everywhere now. It's kind of like it's in my throat now. I don't know—
Jessica: Okay. So I got—it's throat, a little bit in your chest, and it's in your solar—kind of upper stomach, right, now?
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: Okay. It's definitely not "burn everything to the ground," okay?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And it's definitely not business as usual. It's a fear of taking responsibility for yourself. You don't want to be a bitch. You have such a big fear of being perceived as a bitch, which is bananas because you love bitches.
Capoosi: They're the best.
Jessica: Yeah. (laughs) I'm sorry. I mean, I don't want to point fingers at myself, but—
Capoosi: I know. You're my favorite.
Jessica: Thank you. That's very—
Capoosi: So sure and so like, "This is absolute ass." And I'm my favorite version of myself when that's the energy I'm moving with.
Jessica: Yes. Yes. Okay. So let's reframe it because you're a double Libra with Mars in the twelfth house. You don't want to be a bitch. So that feeling in your body is, "I am scared of doing something that someone else won't like because that means I'm bad."
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Okay? These feelings are your six-, seven-year-old self, right before you went into first grade. Isn't that the age? Right?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: You figured out, "Oh shit. I'm a girl, and I have to act in these ways. And I can't act in those ways." And you were a big personality. You were the biggest personality in the class, and you quickly learned that that wasn't okay and that a boy would smack you down. And there were ways to work around it. You figured out those ways very nicely.
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: Okay. So this part of you is really young, which is why you think this part of you is saying, "Burn it to the ground," because what does seven-year-old you do? Run away.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: What the fear really is is, "What am I supposed to do? I'm scared of doing something, and I'm scared of doing the wrong thing, and I'm scared of being mean."
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: What I want to have you do with your Mercury in Virgo is to be able to start writing out—you write. You write as a way to process, right?
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: Writing out what are kind and firm ways of saying things so you don't have to write them out with the intention of saying them, because if you have the intention of saying them, then you're going to cut the edges off too much, right?
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: So, instead, channel me. Channel your favorite bitches. Say it that way, but with empathy and kindness—so not niceness. Not niceness. Niceness is, "That's okay. Let's go have a burger." Kindness is, "I really get where you were coming from. I get you aren't trying to harm me, but you've harmed me. I cannot look at your face right now. I have to go. Will you buy me a burger? Send it to my house via an app." That could be a kindness, but also, maybe the burger at the end was wrong. Okay. Do you see where I'm going with this?
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: I want to encourage you to find ways of being direct and, at the same time, acknowledging their perspective. You are allowed to say to someone, "I care about you so much, and what you're saying makes me feel terrible. And I don't know how to interact with you in this moment because I don't know what I'm thinking or feeling." You're allowed to say to someone, "I really want your opinion, and I also really don't want you to tell me anything mean right now. So will you tell me your opinion later, and will you gas me up right now?" You get to do whatever you need, and they get to say no or yes. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: And that feeling that you have in your belly is, " I don't know how to handle this. I don't know what to do."
Capoosi: Okay.
Jessica: "But I know I need to do something."
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And so the young part of you is either defer to that person or run away or burn it to the ground. Right?
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: But what does adult-you know? Adult-you has so many skills. Adult-you knows so many different possibilities. So, when it comes to why you're having this feeling right now, it's because we're going to get off this call, and what are you going to do? You're going to have to fucking deal with this guy?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: You're going to have to make a decision? That's terrible.
Capoosi: I don't want—yeah.
Jessica: Of course you don't want to. So let's start with today. Today you don't have to do anything. Today is Friday. Do you have plans tonight?
Capoosi: Yeah. I have work.
Jessica: Okay. But you're not going to see him?
Capoosi: No.
Jessica: Okay. Great. Do you see him all weekend?
Capoosi: I'll see him tomorrow.
Jessica: Okay. Here's my advice. Reschedule it. Can you see him in the middle of next week?
Capoosi: Yeah. We can do—
Jessica: After the Eclipse?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Okay. Cool. "Hey, I got this reading. I just need to metabolize it, and I'm going to just take a few days off. I don't want to text or anything."
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And then you don't fucking text him. So you might need to block him.
Capoosi: Oh God.
Jessica: Yeah.
Capoosi: A couple of days?
Jessica: Yeah. Let me tell you why. Let me tell you why: boundaries. The only way to sit in your feelings is to sit in your feelings. And what does he do with your feelings? He distracts you, makes you feel better. Right?
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: So I'm going to encourage you instead to feel your fucking feelings. And listen. If you could sit with your feelings, call in your friends, take baths, do your little, very subtle woo self-care—if you could practice noticing how you feel and not doing anything about it, just sitting with that fucking terrible feeling in your stomach and in your throat chakra and in your chest—sit with those feelings. Be sad. Cry. A man you really care about lied to you. He fucked this up.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And also, this is your fucking pattern. Why do you keep on picking these fucking guys?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Grive those two things. And then, after you've actually felt your feelings and not run to him to make you feel better, you can have a conversation. I would say if you can wait till Wednesday, that's ideal. If you can't wait till Wednesday, don't wait till Wednesday, but if you can. And then have a conversation with him. And honestly, all that I think needs to be said—but you need to sit with this over the course of days and make a decision—is, "You lied to me in a way that makes it impossible for me to trust you." I mean, what else can be said? I mean, you could say a lot of things. I see you, girl. You could just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and say nothing and go get a burger, right?
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: But the truth of the matter is he made it impossible for you to trust him.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: What are you going to do? You can decide to give him another chance.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: But the truth is I don't believe you can give him another chance. I don't think you're wired that way.
Capoosi: I think if I'm standing in my truth and my power, no.
Jessica: Correct. Yeah. But you can go through the motions of giving anyone 50 chances. You're really good at self-abandonment and self-betrayal. Pat yourself on the back.
Capoosi: I know.
Jessica: Yeah. But if you're taking this once-in-a-lifetime Pluto transit and you're really trying to make the best of it—because this is the thing. This chance is going to hurt no matter what you do. So why not have the hurt of healing instead of the hurt of being broken over and over in the same fucking way over and over?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: This guy lied to you. You need no other information. It doesn't make him a bad guy. I know lots of guys that are a lot worse than him. It's not that he's the worst guy in the world. It's that he did something that is just—one of your very intense requisites for dating someone is that you can trust him.
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: How are you going to trust somebody who's so good at lying? He's so good at it. And that's the problem.
Capoosi: And you're saying that from energetic or just the—both?
Jessica: You have such a good bullshit detector, and you had no idea.
Capoosi: I knew something was weird.
Jessica: Yes. But you had no idea he had a second, secret life.
Capoosi: It was something I joked about of, like, "Are you married, or do you have body parts hidden in your establishment? What is going on?"
Jessica: Okay.
Capoosi: And he said no.
Jessica: Technically correct.
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: So now we know you have to ask him, "Are you having intercourse with that person?"—
Capoosi: I know.
Jessica: —and not, "Are you hooking up with that person?" or—that's a problem. So he's put the whole fucking onus on you.
Capoosi: Yeah. The loopholes. You're right.
Jessica: Fuck loopholes. You know how you are about that.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Now you're going to be paranoid and second-guessing. You don't have to wait for him to cheat on you to say, "I have the right to leave." You don't have to wait until you hate him until you leave. And again, you don't have to take any of my advice.
Capoosi: Right.
Jessica: But I want you, more than anything, to just stop lying to yourself about what's happening. And when you have a hard time assessing—when you catch yourself, quote unquote, "understanding" the guy, focus on Sally, your bestie, and be like, "If the identical situation were happening to her, would I have the same thoughts and feelings?" That will clarify things for you fucking quick, right?
Capoosi: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jessica: Very quick. That's the work for you, is to find ways of figuring out how to be more honest with yourself about what's real. And from that place, you can make choices. And you know what? Maybe you make the same shitty choices. Whatever. You know what I mean? You date the guy that you know better. At least you're not lying to yourself. So then, after it's over, when you're mourning the loss of the guy, you're not also mourning that you lied to yourself.
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: Honestly, I can promise you it is much easier to get over a guy than get over self-abandonment.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: It just is.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: So that's the homework, okay?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Now, unfortunately, I know we came to the answer that you did not want to get here, and I'm really sorry. I'm really sorry.
Capoosi: Yeah. I know.
Jessica: Do you smoke weed?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Yeah. A lot?
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: Routinely? It's just routine?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Okay.
Capoosi: Well, and then I'll be like, "Forget it. I'm never doing this again." I throw everything out, and then I buy it all back in three months—not even.
Jessica: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. In general, as an emotional coping mechanism, is that the best idea? No, it's not the fucking best idea. That said, smoke all the weed you need to smoke if you're taking time off of him from now until Wednesday, okay?
Capoosi: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jessica: I feel like this came up for me because I want to acknowledge, okay, you have this coping mechanism. Is it great? It's not great. And also, is it the best you can do today? Fuck yeah. And is that good enough? Fuck yeah. I didn't want you to leave this reading and be like, "Oh, I've kind of kept this secret that I do this thing, and maybe it's right, and maybe it's wrong," because you have weird feelings about smoking weed the way you do; is that correct?
Capoosi: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica: Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's not fucking ideal. Who cares? That's okay. I want to just say, if you were looking for permission, granted. It's all good. Do you know what I mean?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Because right now, you cannot change everything all at once. It's just too much. It's too much. And if it helps you, even if it helps in ways where you're like, "It's not really helping me; I'm just checking out"—fine. Just take on one giant at a time. And this is a fucking huge giant for you. So give yourself permission to do what you do. You know what I mean?
Capoosi: Yeah. It helps me feel and release.
Jessica: Yeah.
Capoosi: And I question if that's not really releasing, but if it helps the emotions, well—
Jessica: Sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: That's the problem. It's the habit, right? So it's like the way that you use it is addicty because it's like you have to use it.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And that part is not serving you. And then does it, at times, actually super help you? Yes. They're both true.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And I think part of what you're going through now is actually learning about "and alsos." Weed helps you sometimes, and also, you're kind of addicted to it.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: This guy is actually a lovely guy in many ways. And also, motherfucker lied to you. It's okay to have them both be true and for you to have mixed feelings and mixed needs in response to messy realities. And I think that part of how you mourn loss is alone. And so, while your instinct is to call your girls and connect with other people, you actually need time alone for this.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: I will also say, if you say to this man or any man at any time, "I need to take a break so I can really sit in my feelings. This is hard for me. Please don't text me," and then he fucking texts you, then you have really important information. That information is he doesn't respect your boundaries. Now, let's be honest. You don't respect your boundaries.
Capoosi: I know.
Jessica: So it's like you can't really run that test with him right now because we don't trust you to respect your own boundaries.
Capoosi: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jessica: So, if you say to him, "Hey, I'm taking this break," you then have to block him. You know how to block someone?
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: You know how to unblock them?
Capoosi: Yes.
Jessica: Okay. Block him. Make every effort to not unblock him until Tuesday night—
Capoosi: Okay.
Jessica: —or Wednesday morning. And every time you really, really want to text him, just text your fucking best friend an emergency emoji or something, and have her text you whatever you find the most distracting.
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: Yeah.
Capoosi: Okay.
Jessica: Smoke your weed—whatever.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Do your thing. You know what I mean?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Because this is like an exceptionally hard thing for you to do, which is identify a need, have a boundary, hold the boundary.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: It would be like a miracle if you could do it. Yeah.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: So let's call in the miracles.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: Let's call in the miracles.
Capoosi: Okay.
Jessica: This seems like the hardest thing you'll ever do, and in a way, it is. And it's also bringing you towards greater ease.
Capoosi: I just wanted to be—I just want that in these because I want to build a life with somebody.
Jessica: Yeah. This is so important, and I'm really glad we came to this because I am of the mind that the way that you can build a life with somebody is that you start practicing saying no to the guys who just can't be it. He could have been it if only he was a completely different person.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And this is kind of like your dating history. He would have been great if only he were a completely different version of himself.
Capoosi: It felt for the first time like I was accepting of who he is, and I didn't try to change. And then he's like, "By the way," and I'm like, "Are you kidding me?"
Jessica: Yeah. And this is like part of my Deal or No Deal metaphor that I'm always saying, is that the Universe is like, "You want to make a new deal? Great. Here's a different version of the same shitty deal." This is how we change. And so, whenever you see a pattern coming up in your life in all these different corners, know that means you're changing it. Now, the problem is, when we have the same bullshit coming up in lots of different corners, we often collapse and stop trying.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: But that's when you want to really commit because that's how you know you're changing. And you're not just changing a pattern with men. You're not just changing how you show up at work. You're changing how you do or don't align with yourself, which is some of the deepest things you could ever do.
Capoosi: Mm-hmm.
Jessica: So, if it's exceptionally hard, that's because it's exceptionally hard and not because you're weak.
Capoosi: Okay.
Jessica: It is hard. Yeah.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: I'm really sorry. And also, again, he couldn't have made it easier for you by doing something stupider, which is like a gift from the Universe. It's almost like the Universe, God, whatever it is you believe in, was like, "Let's make this almost comically obvious. What are you going to do?" You know? And I'm sorry. I know it maybe doesn't sound comical to you.
Capoosi: No, it is, though. It is. And how are we still making a path where this isn't a problem?
Jessica: Whenever it's this obvious, it's like the Universe is helping you see, "Oh shit. This is really my stuff. I cannot actually excuse this behavior, even as I'm actively excusing his behavior." That's how you know it's yours.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: That's how you know it's yours. And there's a gift in that. Be mad at him whenever you're ready. Please be ready sooner or later, but you don't have to be mad at him now. For now, it's a gift. We don't have to thank him personally. We can thank his soul for helping you learn this lesson that is so hard for you to learn because, again, what else could he have done that was so obvious, other than cheat?
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: And even cheating—it's like, because it's your pattern, you could blame it on yourself in some fucked-up way.
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: This is just fucking bananas, so out of left field. So I'm really sorry. I'm really sorry.
Capoosi: I know. Thank you.
Jessica: Do you have a bathtub?
Capoosi: I do. Yeah.
Jessica: Can you bubble bath? Can you commit to being in baths?
Capoosi: Yeah. I—yes. Well, yes, I can. [crosstalk]—
Jessica: Maybe not tonight, but between now and Wednesday—
Capoosi: Yeah.
Jessica: —you can stop off, buy a million different bathy things, and just live in water. It'll help. It's not going to fix anything, but it'll help.
Capoosi: Right, soothe a little bit.
Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. Soothe a little bit. Exactly. Exactly.
Capoosi: Okay.
Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I really wish you luck, and I hope everything goes okay as it can.
Capoosi: Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much.
Jessica: It is totally my pleasure. And I hope you take really good care of yourself.
Capoosi: Mm-hmm. I for sure will.
Jessica: Okay. Good.