Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Jessica:            Jane, welcome to the podcast. What would you like a reading about?

Jane:                Okay. I'm going to read my question. "Hi, Jessica. Thank you for all your help. Should I be more feminine? I've received two Tarot readings in the past that I'm living more in my masculine energy and then, recently, an astrological reading that says now is the only time in my life to really claim my feminine power. I truly hate every time this comes up in readings, so I wanted to unpack it out of curiosity. Thank you."

Jessica:            Okay. I got questions for your question.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            When these three individual humans said unto you, "You should be more feminine"—is that what they said, basically? You should be more feminine?

Jane:                You know what? It came up in the opposite—the first one was like, "You're more in your masculine energy," and the next one was like, "You need to be more—or it would be recommended to be more flowy in the feminine energy." Yeah.

Jessica:            Did you ask either of these people how they were defining masculine or feminine energy?

Jane:                No. I just kind of took it for granted.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. And what did you take for granted? What does feminine mean to you? What does masculine mean to you?

Jane:                Great question. From the readings, I feel like there's a higher vibrational definition of feminine being receptive, creative, flowy—these things. And then, when I was checking in about this reading, I was like, "Oh, my personal definition is a log more gunky with a lot more patriarchal stuff intwined with it." But I think in the sense of what the readings were sharing was more of that divine feminine—I don't know, whatever is coded when people say that in kind of woo conversations.

Jessica:            So wait. But what about masculine? How are you defining masculine energy?

Jane:                Oh yeah. I haven't really thought about that way. I guess in the same kind of woo-ish realm. Assertive, action-based, I guess, would be the main word that comes up. Action.

Jessica:            Okay. So, in these three separate readings, three separate humans—were they all the same gender? Were they different genders?

Jane:                No. They were two women, and then one was actually like a customized astrology app, which I know is not the—

Jessica:            It's not. Yeah. It's not it.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            You know I don't have strong happy feelings about that, but I respect we do these things. So there's two women and an AI.

Jane:                A robot.

Jessica:            A robot.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            So, in all of these cases, nobody defined for you what feminine was or what masculine was, and you had kind of feelings about what feminine was but not even clear feelings about what masculine is; am I clocking that correct so far?

Jane:                Yeah, and I just accepted that—like, I agreed with it, point-blank, where I was like, "I am in my masculine." So I just—

Jessica:            Fascinating. You are in your masculine. And when you think to yourself , "Yeah, man, I am in my masculine," what does that sentence mean? I mean, I threw in the
"man" part, but what does that mean?

Jane:                This is where I think it's polluted with my own stuff, but it's like—

Jessica:            Sure.

Jane:                —aggressive, not receptive, more ego-based, not very soft—things like that.

Jessica:            Okay. Fascinating. I think this is so interesting. Okay. And this is not relevant, but I feel like there's a cultural inference here—Gay, straight, Queer, questioning?

Jane:                Horrifically straight. Yeah.

Jessica:            I mean, I'm assuming from these—

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            This conversation is very, very straight. And it's not because it's actually straight, because one of this has to do with sexuality. The kind of binary—you know, feminine flows and masculine stops it, right?

Jane:                Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jessica:            Because masculine's a man. Right?

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            So okay. Okay. Okay. And so, coming back to your question, you get told by the woo, whether it's an AI or a person, "You should be more feminine." One way or another, that's what they're saying.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And you're like, "No. I don't want to." Am I hearing that correctly?

Jane:                It's more like, "Oh, that hurts," because I want to be, but it's never been my thing, nor have I ever felt validated in that way. And it feels like another thing I'm not doing, quote unquote, "right."

Jessica:            Interesting. Okay. So they're saying it would be better for you to be more feminine, and you're like, "Oh, but I wish I was, but I cannot be naturally."

Jane:                Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay.

Jane:                Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And your associations with feminine are flowy and receptive.

Jane:                In the highest kind of definition of it, yeah.

Jessica:            In the highest definition. Give me more words. What is the highest definition of flowy and receptive? On what level is this existing?

Jane:                It comes in with—I don't know—images of being a mother, conceiving, receiving, creating. That seems like the pinnacle [crosstalk]—

Jessica:            Like tradwife style.

Jane:                Without that cultural restriction around it, either, just embracing the power of being a woman. Yeah.

Jessica:            Interesting. I mean, what's fascinating—

Jane:                I'm pretty abstract.

Jessica:            This is both very abstract—also, you say you really want it, but also—

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            —you don't completely really want it, because if you did really want it—

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            —you would identify with it more. You would choose it more. So do you want to be a mother? Do you want to procreate? Is that important to you?

Jane:                I was hoping you would tell me. I don't know.

Jessica:            (laughs)

Jane:                (laughs)

Jessica:            So you want me to tell you if you want to procreate because you're not sure?

Jane:                Yeah. Just background, I've struggled so long with knowing when I want things genuinely, and there's a lot of pain around that. So there's a bit of me that's just scared that, oh, maybe I want them but I'm too scared, and I'm still in my shit, and I don't know that—

Jessica:            I see.

Jane:                Right? Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. Let me briefly say you were born May 28, 1986, Concord, New Hampshire, 10:26 p.m. Okay. I'm just getting that out of the way for the people. But wait. You have a hard time knowing what you want, and yet you feel you are more masculine, which you have defined as aggressive, more closed, ego-driven, and hard.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And yet you don't know what you want. Fascinating. Okay.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            I hope you are hearing how little of this makes sense so far.

Jane:                No, because I've been in this brain for too long.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Fun, fun, fun. Are you in a partnership?

Jane:                No.

Jessica:            Okay. So you don't know if you want babies, which means sometimes you want babies.

Jane:                Right. Yeah.

Jessica:            And sometimes you don't want babies.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And sometimes you're just ambiguous, and you don't know what you want.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. You've experienced all three of these things separately, different moments?

Jane:                And I would say wanting babies, micro moments of wanting. So they're really short-lived when they're—

Jessica:            Micro moments. You say that; I think, "Oh my God. Where's the Virgo in your chart?" But then it's—you have Sun, Chiron, and Mercury all on top of each other in the house of Virgo in the sixth house. That's where it is. Micro moments of desiring babies. And I am inferring from our very brief conversation so far that that, on some level, feels not feminine enough or a failure of femininity; is that correct?

Jessica:            I'm pointing at you because you nailed it. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. (laughs)

Jane:                Yeah. Yeah. Correct.

Jessica:            Sorry for laughing. Okay. I just like—I like nailing things.

Jane:                No, I love it. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. Now, you know I'm going to reject all of this, right? I'm guessing you know that.

Jane:                Oh yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Cool, cool, cool, cool.

Jane:                That's why I wrote in. Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Cool. You got me. You got me. I am sitting in a bright pink and red room. I vibe with things that are labeled as feminine, and I wholeheartedly reject that has really anything to do with that procreative urge, which is really a biological urge. I don't like the spiritual attribution of creation. It's like, what is it? So we're supposed to want to procreate, right, which is gestate and birth a human? So we want to do that, but then when masculine energy does it, it's, "I am assertive about my goals. I make things happen." I don't know. That feels like spin to me, which, of course, as you already kind of intimated, it's like patriarchal spin, right?

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            I'm to start with, in a way, the most intense part, okay?

Jane:                Sure. Yeah.

Jessica:            Because, in a way, I have the easiest answer for that part. Listen. You have Neptune conjunct your Ascendant. You have fucking Sun/Saturn opposition. You have an Aquarius Moon. You got a bunch of Gemini in you. You know what? You could go a lot of ways on a lot of things. You could go a lot of ways on a lot of things. And that Sun/Saturn opposition is like, "Yeah, but there's a right way and a wrong way, so I have to figure it out."

Jane:                Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yes. You're welcome. Also—and I'm going to make statements. You tell me true or false, or, "I don't know," okay?

Jane:                Okay.

Jessica:            You have friends who have human babies.

Jane:                True.

Jessica:            Okay. You look at their lives, and you are not jealous of their actual human lives. I'm not talking about their moments. I'm talking about all day Monday through Sunday and over again.

Jane:                Oh, yeah. No. Whatever the answer is, we're not jealous of the whole—

Jessica:            Completely not jealous of what they have.

Jane:                The whole—the 24-hour of it, no.

Jessica:            Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jane:                Moments, yeah.

Jessica:            Moments, yeah. That's why I was really clear, because listen: does everyone want the Instagram feed of happiness, whether we're looking at fame or parenting? Yeah, of course, we want that. Those are photos, though. That's not a life. So that's why I was being really careful to articulate the actual lifestyle of parenting and of coparenting—you're not jealous.

Jane:                No. I like to sleep.

Jessica:            Yeah. You do. You really do. Yeah. That's not wrong. That's not wrong. And also, there are a lot of things that you're really curious about. You have this real insatiable curiosity about the world and about life, yeah?

Jane:                Oh yeah. I'm collecting people's stories like flies on a web all the time.

Jessica:            Yes. Yes. But you're actually not super curious about your friends' days who are parenting or coparenting, correct?

Jane:                Correct. Yeah. True. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. That's your answer. It's not that you're 100 percent closed to parenting. It's not that you think it's bad. It's not that you emphatically don't want it. Like me, I'm a person who's never wanted to have kids, never wanted to parent. I'm emphatic about it. I'm super clear about it. I am a minority. There's not a whole lot of me's out there, especially for lady types. You're not like me in that way.

Jane:                No. Yeah.

Jessica:            But you are like me at the fucking root of it all, in that it's not what you want to do. You are insatiably curious about things that you find interesting, and you're not curious about parenting or coparenting.

Jane:                Oh my God. Yeah. That's such a good differential between the two.

Jessica:            Yes. Yes.

Jane:                I'm not curious about parenting. You're right.

Jessica:            No, you're not—or coparenting. And I want to be clear about why I'm differentiating parenting and coparenting, because some people, whether it's by choice or by circumstance, parent alone. Right? And that's parenting. When you're coparenting, you're also just parenting. However, if you are partnered, or if you're broken up but coparenting, then the process of coparenting is its own fucking thing. And there are beautiful parts of it, and there are incredible stresses about it. But it is a thing that I think we don't think about or talk about enough, the act of coparenting and all that it entails. And you crave that even less than you crave parenting; am I right?

Jane:                I haven't even thought about coparenting.

Jessica:            Okay. I'm going to pull back and say we are talking about real basic things—feminine, masculine, parenting, coparenting. And it's really good for you to see that even though you are the most curious person—you have a million questions about everything—you have not really thought about any of these things that are actually the thing that you're the most curious about, like, "Where do I fall in these things?" You haven't defined what feminine is, what masculine is, for yourself. And you haven't thought about coparenting. That's interesting, right?

Jane:                Yeah. I feel, with that point, it's like the way I internalize or am experiencing my reality, I guess, I feel like those are the things after a relationship. And I've felt so far removed from relationship even territory, where I haven't even allowed myself to think past that. And you said people solo parent and they make that choice, but for me, it's always been wrapped up with a relationship. It's always been—

Jessica:            Yeah. Here's a thing I've seen a lot in my years of doing the work I do. And this is especially for straight women more than any other demographic—is that if you in your heart of hearts actually don't want to parent, if you in your heart of hearts don't have that drive that so many people do have to procreate—there are people who have this biological drive and imperative to procreate. I do not see that in your birth chart.

Jane:                Oh.

Jessica:            Have you experienced that, that biological urge to procreate?

Jane:                Just a little before I got on fucking birth control, which is a whole different story. But when my hormones were off the charts, it's like you're under the spell, and I was like, "Oh. Now my body wants a baby?" It was so intent, and it was different than my normal—because I've just been in my head for my whole fucking life. But for a while, I just thought—yeah, I didn't feel like I wanted to conceive. And I kept waiting for the relationship and the time for it to shift. I want to make a point of—I sound so fucking conservative right now, and I'm not in my life.

Jessica:            I mean—

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            —I'm glad you're hearing it. It's not that you sound conservative, although I guess it could be heard that way. You're hearing how you've internalized patriarchal messaging. "Don't worry, girl. One day, you'll meet the perfect man. And when you meet the perfect man, then you're going to want to be a mother and a wife. You're going to want to procreate." These are the messages we were all raised with. Whether or not our parents gave us those messages, every fairytale, every show, every movie—I mean, that's just what we're fed, right?

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And it's also epigenetic. It's like generation after generation after generation after generation of this messaging—either, "Don't worry; you'll want it," "Oh well. Suck it up. It's your only option." Right? And so it's really hard because you've told yourself, "When I find the right man, I can figure these things out."

Jane:                Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            But here's the problem with that logic. First of all, it means you're looking outside of yourself, and it doesn't make sense what you're looking for. So trying to decide who you'll be based on the man that you'll meet, who you haven't yet met, is an abandonment of self. Now listen. There's nothing wrong with saying to yourself, "I don't know. I've had micro moments of wanting to have kids. When I was hormonally dysregulated, I had the impulse to procreate. But other than that, these are not things that motivate me. And I'm open to that shifting when I meet someone. But that's where I'm starting from," because that's actually literally where you're starting from.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And you're in your 30s?

Jane:                I'm turning 39 next week.

Jessica:            So you've had a lot of years to start from this place.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            My experience is that a lot of times, when women are in your position, they unconsciously—and this is, I think, strictly unconsciously—block finding a successful relationship because if your subconscious belief or conscious belief is, "When I meet the right man, then I'm going to want to have a kid," but you know in your heart of hearts or if your body knows, "I don't want to have a kid"—

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            —then you have a really good motivation to not find that guy, quote unquote, "in time" for your procreative years.

Jane:                Wow. Yeah. Yeah, [crosstalk].

Jessica:            I have seen this over and over and over and over again. When we define ourselves through a thing that doesn't exist, that means that we don't get to exist.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And at the same time, when you don't give yourself permission to own, "Okay. I actually don't want these things, and I've had moments where I want these things. So it could shift"—right?

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            If you don't give yourself permission to own, "I have a lot of clarity on this, and I have, also, lovely strains of 'I don't know.' And I'm just going to name that that's the answer. I have a lot of clarity on this and also lovely strains of 'I don't know.' And so the perfect person, in the perfect circumstances, could make those strands of 'I don't know' into a yes. But my starting point is a no."

Jane:                Right. Right. That makes sense.

Jessica:            So that's kind of a heavy place to start because you asked, "Do I want kids?" That's kind of a big fucking question.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And I answered it, right? Which—I can't answer that for you, obviously.

Jane:                No, I know. I know. I know. Yeah.

Jessica:            But also, this is really important because when I look at your birth chart, I see that you're incredibly generative and creative. If this is your definition of femininity, you're—check. You know? Fucking check. You're kind of always engaged in the process of exploring what's possible and messing with the boundaries of aesthetic but also spiritual creativity. True or False?

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Jane:                I'm getting emotional. Thank you. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. You're welcome.

Jane:                There's a lot there. Yeah.

Jessica:            And do you know why you're getting emotional?

Jane:                Back to what you were saying about—and I forget exactly how you phrased it, but letting yourself exist—

Jessica:            Yeah.

Jane:                —I have such a hard time with that. And even when I was meditating on this question for you, I feel like at the root of it—because my—below the sewer of patriarchy, it's like my definition of being feminine is existing.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jane:                And I have a really hard time with that.

Jessica:            Okay. Let's talk about that.

Jane:                Okay.

Jessica:            You have fucking Neptune sitting very closely to your Ascendant from the twelfth house in Capricorn. And that, my friend, is, "What is existence? Do I exist? My meat suit is a liar. I don't know where I begin or end." And on top of that—

Jane:                (laughs) Yeah.

Jessica:            You laugh because I'm right about that, I'm guessing.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jane:                You're so right. Yeah.

Jessica:            You're welcome. You're welcome. And then, on top of that, you have Venus on your Descendant opposite your Neptune and your Ascendant. And so you feel—and we could talk about where this came from in your childhood, but let's just stick to you. You feel that the way to show up for and love others is devotional. You're supposed to—if you and I are hanging out and I say to you, "I believe that the sky is purple," you might look outside and be like, "That shit is blue. But I like Jessica, so I'll be like, 'Yeah. I can see the purple hues in this.'"

Jane:                Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. I will change my reality for you real quick.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yes. And some of this is because it brings you pleasure to kind of adapt and explore. It's part of your curiosity. It's part of your weirdness. It's part of your creativity, right? We don't want to lose those things. I don't want to pretend those things don't exist. Those things are lovely.

Jane:                Okay.

Jessica:            And then part of it is because you fear that if you say to me, "Jessica, say more. It seems a little blue to me"—if you said something like that to me, there's this part of you that feels that that's you rejecting me.

Jane:                Yes, and being rude and hurtful.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Jane:                Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            What that kind of betrays is that you are willing to abandon your own capacity to perceive, let's say, the color of the sky out of politeness or a sense of nicety to me.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And I hate to say this, but, my friend, you have the North Node in Aries, which means in English that you have come here in this lifetime to figure out how to stop fucking abandoning yourself and instead to be yourself. And the way that you have historically—like, throughout lifetimes—abandoned yourself is in relationships to other people.

Jane:                Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            So, in this lifetime, my guess is you have kept yourself away from close relationships with other people as a way to mitigate the harm you perpetrate against yourself.

Jane:                Yep. Yep.

Jessica:            And that is not a terrible strategy. I want to validate that—okay. Okay. You got halfway there. You're like, "Don't abandon self," so you get into relationships with people and you abandon yourself, and then it doesn't end up working out. Okay. The next step evolutionarily, and also psychologically and behaviorally, is to choose you. It's to identify what your perspective is, where you begin or end, so that you can, if you choose to, hang out with me for coffee and I stare at the blue sky, and I say, "Look how bright purple it is," and you can say, "That sounds fun. Okay. It's purple," or you can say nothing, or—so, basically, what I'm saying is so that you have options that you believe that you can access in that interaction instead of only feeling that you have one option, which is mean or nice.

Jane:                Yeah. And I will deny my feelings so fast. I'll go, "Well, they must be right." Yeah. All of it.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Jane:                It's been a fault line. Yeah.

Jessica:            And listen. Thank God you're not partnered right now with a guy who's like, "Yeah. You abandon yourself to agree with me? Let's get married." That is good that you haven't done that. I mean, you might want partnership, but I want to say this North Node in Aries, this compulsion that we're talking about—which, by the way, is very feminine in a traditional patriarchal way. If you were looking to be more feminine, check.

Jane:                Oh, with which part?

Jessica:            Abandoning yourself for other people.

Jane:                Oh. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jane:                Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jessica:            So good on you, I guess.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Listen. The trappings of feminine and masculine—as a Queer person, I'll say I very early on adopted—you can use "ying" and "yang." You can use "passive energy" and "active energy." And the next time a computer program or a person says to you "feminine" or "masculine," I task you with taking the responsibility to yourself to say to them, "Can you say that in different words? I have a hard time when people use those terminologies. I just don't know what they mean." Ask them to explain it.

                        And if they use the first three words that everybody uses for those things, you can be like, "Oh, they don't really actually know," because I will tell you, in all the years I have been doing the work that I do, I would say eight out of ten times that I ask a person who brings up the concept of feminine or masculine in this way that we're talking about it—eight times out of ten, nobody's ever asked them before, "What does that actually mean?"

Jane:                Right.

Jessica:            And that's because, within patriarchy, we have all these really clear assumptions.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And those assumptions require us to abandon ourselves. They're old, and they don't work. And that doesn't mean that—some people really are—some women are like, "I am a princess, and that is what I am." And that's great. You know what I mean? If that's your vibes, that's your vibes. But it's not the only way to be. There is a way that you have a lot of things smooshed into this messy ball of what feminine is, what masculine is, what I'm supposed to be, what I'm not.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And if we pulled out "feminine" and "masculine" and we just went to the things and we went to who you actually are, it would get a lot easier for you to process.

Jane:                Yeah, because even when I was considering it, I feel like there's decades now of just material to throw into that bucket of crap.

Jessica:            Bucket of crap. And because in your birth chart you have Uranus opposite your Mercury and they're both square to Jupiter, this is how I know you're insatiably curious. If you are not curious about a thing, here's just a cheat sheet to you based on your birth chart. If you're not curious about it, it's because you don't find it interesting.

Jane:                Right. Okay. Yeah.

Jessica:            If you don't find it interesting and you're not curious, you don't want it. That's just you. That's not necessarily me. That's you.

Jane:                Right.

Jessica:            Take a moment and think through—track if there are examples in your life where you actually were not curious, but you genuinely wanted a thing. Let's say interpersonal relationships—a friend, somebody you might have dated. Have you ever been—really liked somebody and not been curious about them?

Jane:                Oh. I mean, no. I just get—I mean, to answer that, I'm like—I'm curious, but I get scared. So I kind of delete it out a little bit. But yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            So, when you really like someone or want somebody romantically or platonically, you're both very curious, but also, you pull back from yourself.

Jane:                Well, until there's an open door of, "Oh, now we're"—yeah. "Now we're relating," I guess.

Jessica:            Okay.

Jane:                But yeah. And I download—I still have little mental histories of people that I've had affection for.

Jessica:            Okay.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And have you ever been in a relationship?

Jane:                Yeah. I've had one that counts. Yeah.

Jessica:            And how long were you guys together?

Jane:                Not that long. Just a year and some change, like three months.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. And was that recent?

Jane:                No. That was 2017 to 2018.

Jessica:            Okay. I mean, I would call that relatively recent, but okay. I get what you're saying.

Jane:                Yeah. Me, too. Okay. Great.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. I would call that recent. Yeah.

Jane:                Okay. Good. Thank you.

Jessica:            Yes. Yeah, it is. Okay. And are you friends, or is this person out of your life?

Jane:                He ghosted me in an understandable kind of way, but it still sucked. And then he came back and he apologized, so then there was closure, which was great. But no. I just—no. I kind of let him go.

Jessica:            Okay.

Jane:                He kind of stopped being in touch. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. So hold on. I'm going to have you say your full name out loud.

Jane:                Sure. [redacted].

Jessica:            Do you even want to be in a relationship?

Jane:                Jessica, I don't think so.

Jessica:            I don't either.

Jane:                I don't know.

Jessica:            I don't think so at all.

Jane:                But I feel crazy because it was the one thing—and this is where I'll get emotional again.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Jane:                It was the one thing I wanted. It was the one thing I wanted for the longest time.

Jessica:            I see. And was it the end of that relationship that changed it?

Jane:                No. What I noticed—sorry. I just need a minute.

Jessica:            No, take your time. Take your time.

Jane:                Thank you. It's crazy because, in a way, I'm really glad that I'm not having a reading with you ten years ago because it would just all be like—

Jessica:            Yeah.

Jane:                —tunnel vision. No. So what I noticed is the last two promising dates I went on, when it didn't pan out, I just started shutting down in this way of, like, "Is this even worth it anymore? Am I"—and I don't know if that's healthy or not for me. And my first—it wasn't a proper relationship—was so devastating. It was with someone who I think would be diagnosed as a narcissist. And it just messed me up.

Jessica:            Yeah. I'm sorry.

Jane:                Thanks. I'm sorry. I know you're a triple Cap. I'm sorry I'm crying.

Jessica:            No, no, no. I'm completely—I'm actually a crying encourager.

Jane:                Okay. Good.

Jessica:            And if we were meeting in person, you would know that I always have tissues at my desk because I don't want to brag, but I do make people cry. So I'm okay—emotions are healthy and good. So don't apologize.

Jane:                Thanks. Thank you.

Jessica:            You're welcome. And do you need a minute more? Because happy to—

Jane:                I'm good. I cry on the bus. I'm okay with crying.

Jessica:            Yeah. No, that's good. You have Neptune on the rise. You can cry. Yeah. And you have Venus opposite. You can cry.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And then you have Mars in the first house. Do you blush a lot, too?

Jane:                Oh my God.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jane:                Everyone I know, this is real. This is real.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. It is. It is. Mars in the first house. It's just—the face flushes. Yeah.

Jane:                My cheeks are my number-one opp. They give me away.

Jessica:            Totally. Totally. So I got lots and lots of words for you. The first thing is I am zero percent surprised that you dated a narcissist—real talks—because you told me that you would abandon your own perception that the sky is blue. So a narcissist would be like, "Yum, yum, yum." Right? That's—

Jane:                Oh yeah. He was insane. When I came back to him for the last run of it, I was like, "Oh, you're insane, and I'm opting into your reality to be here."

Jessica:            Yeah. Right.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            So learning how to not abandon yourself—it's a life path, right?

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Here's the other thing. You tell me the top three reasons why you want to be in a romantic relationship with a man. I will wait.

Jane:                (laughs) You got jokes, too.

Jessica:            (laughs)

Jane:                To be real, it's validation of, like, "Oh, I'm doing something right in life."

Jessica:            Okay. Validation. That's one.

Jane:                It's—because my hormonal journey is so different now. My body is so different now. It's not even like the same kind of sexual situation, but I would like intimacy, physical intimacy.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm.

Jane:                So that's on there. And laughs. I just like to laugh with people. So, if I have someone laughing with me on demand—that's how relationships work, right?

Jessica:            Yes. It's exactly how—and it's so easy. Yes. Okay. So your top three reasons for wanting to be in a romantic relationship with a man are for validation that you're doing something right—direct quote—

Jane:                Yep. Yep.

Jessica:            —intimacy, which—you said it's physical, but it's also emotional, right?

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And laughter.

Jane:                Yeah. (laughs) Your face. Yeah.

Jessica:            I mean, well, you know, it's an interesting motivation, right? Because the amount of labor it is to go on dates and all those things for validation that you're doing something right, intimacy, and laughs—yeah, I could see how you'd be like, "I don't even know if this is worth it anymore."

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            So here's what I'm going to say to you. Do you have a therapist?

Jane:                No. I'm in between.

Jessica:            Get a shrink, okay?

Jane:                Okay. Yeah.

Jessica:            Get a shrink if you can because what I think would be really great for you is to get better reasons to be in a relationship or to change your mind because if you turn 40 and you want exactly what you wanted for—as what you wanted when you were 15 for the exact same reasons, if when you turn 40 you want exactly what you wanted when you were 30 for the exact same reasons, that means you haven't evolved. You haven't grown.

Jane:                Oh. Okay.

Jessica:            So it's okay that at one point, you were like, "I want to be in a relationship because xyz," and now xyz is not that impressive to you. Maybe a, b, and x or whatever is the reason you're wanting a relationship.

Jane:                Yeah. That's really good.

Jessica:            Yes. It is good. It is good. And you, I want to just say really emphatically, don't need to want to be partnered. You don't need to want to be married. You don't have to want a man at all. And also, you are welcome to want these things. And I'll also say wanting to have a boyfriend doesn't mean you want to have a partner. Wanting to have a partner doesn't mean that you want to have a husband. Wanting a husband doesn't mean you want to have a child. These are all different things.

                        And as somebody who has a hard time separating your identity from other people and validating your preferences—because you said, "I don't know what I want." I'm saying you have a hard time validating what you know of what you want. It's really important to separate out those pieces because if, in fact, what you want is a partner who—maybe you're married; maybe you're not. You probably won't have kids, but maybe. You have to own that, because as a straight woman navigating the world, there's all these assumptions that you would have a very easy time functioning out of.

Jane:                That's right. Yeah.

Jessica:            And now that you're almost 40, we already know those assumptions aren't working for you, right?

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            If they were working for you, you would have made them work.

Jane:                Yeah. Right?

Jessica:            Yeah.

Jane:                I think. I hope. I think.

Jessica:            Yeah. You would have at least tried a little harder to make them work. You would have been in more unhappy relationships. You know what I mean?

Jane:                Yeah. Yeah—

Jessica:            You would have. Given your nature, you would have. Yeah.

Jane:                —because I thought that, too. I was like, "Why am I not trying harder?" because I know the clock, quote unquote, "is ticking," which [crosstalk].

Jessica:            Yes. Yeah. The clock is ticking. I mean, this is the problem. If you do want to procreate, there is a limited amount of time that your body can do that. And for some people, that time is until their 30s. Some people, it's well into their 40s or even their 50s. And if you don't really want to have a fucking kid—you're willing to have your mind changed, but you don't really want it, but you're not owning that preference, and even worse, you don't know how to own a preference out loud to another person unless you're sure that it won't upset them—

Jane:                Right. Goddamn it. Yeah.

Jessica:            That's the one.

Jane:                That's it.

Jessica:            Then what you're doing is you are running out the clock on purpose, unconsciously on purpose.

Jane:                I think my body is even doing it—

Jessica:            Yes.

Jane:                —which is part of my situation at the moment, like, a health thing. But yeah.

Jessica:            Health thing like physical health? Mental health?

Jane:                Yeah. Well, the reason I'm on birth control is because I have large fibroids. So that started when I was 35, and that was just like a hard reckoning of—and that was when the pandemic started. It was like—

Jessica:            Oh, terrible timing. And is the birth control helping to mitigate them?

Jane:                Yeah. So my main symptom was bleeding, so that stops the bleeding. And then the bonus, which I didn't expect, is that it evened out my hormones—

Jessica:            Great.

Jane:                —in a way where I was like, "Oh my God. Maybe antidepressants weren't the way." But on the other hand, the thing I'm still trying to work out is my sex drive. It really brought it down. So that added to this—I don't know—lady's intermission in dating.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Jane:                I'm like, "Why do I even—I don't need anything from these people."

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            So let me just say a couple things. Oftentimes, when Jupiter is the focal planet to a T-square, you are cysty. Fibroids are just cysts.

Jane:                Oh.

Jessica:            Yeah. It gives you benign cysts.

Jane:                Oh. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. So that could be anything from, when you're about to get a cold, you get swollen glands in your throat. It could be fibroids. There are so many [indiscernible 00:35:17]. There are so many different cysts that the body can create that are benign. They're not cancerous. They're not a big problem, except for they can be a big fucking problem, right?

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            That's Jupiter. Jupiter is just more, more, more. And then, on top of it, that Venus/Neptune opposition can often coincide with hormonal problems, just floodgates of hormones, basically. And so what the pill is doing is kind of all the things for you, right?

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            It's not helping your nervous system dysregulation, but it's helping all the things that would stimulate or overactivate that nervous system dysregulation.

Jane:                That's right. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. So it gives you more resources with which to take care of yourself.

I do not see things in terms of feminine and masculine in the spiritual context, like the high-level divine mother stuff, certainly divine father. I don't fuck with these archetypes personally. And I respect that other people do, and it gives people value. I don't like them, and I don't think you like them. If you like them—

Jane:    I don't either. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. So here's your permission, if you're looking for it: don't fuck with those fucking archetypes. Fuck that shit. Yeah. It's not for you. Not all things have to be for you. You know? So that's one thing. The other thing is, if we consider either on a spiritual level or psychological level—however you want to think about this—that we are organisms, and within the function of our soul or our bodies or whatever, we are striving towards—in the direction of wholeness, what that means is that it is in our best interest to achieve some level of balance between our active and our passive impulses, our making it happen and our collaborating with what's already happening.

                        You can call that feminine and masculine. That's not what I'm calling it. And for different people and at different phases of life, that's going to look different ways. Listen. You have a fucking North Node in Aries. You have Mars in the first house. Yeah, active, self-driven, make it happen. You have Venus on the Descendant—in fucking Cancer, no less—Neptune on the Ascendant. Yeah, you have flow and ease and receptivity and diplomacy. These things are all in your nature.

                        Listen. Honestly, none of it matters. None of it matters. All that matters is that you find ways of loving yourself, receiving love, choosing people, situations, and things that are healthy for you, which is to say that provoke problems that help you be a healthier version of yourself, not that evade all problems—very Neptunian idea. There's no perfect relationship. There's no perfect man. You're not going to be perfect ever, and neither am I. We will both make many mistakes over the course of our lives, some of them very small and some of them very big. It's fucking life.

                        But if the mistakes we make and the problems we have point us in the direction of becoming healthier, more balanced, more present, then they're great.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            For you, the problem of sitting across from a person at a table and agreeing with them and feeling weird about why you're not happier in that social interaction—that probably doesn't actually help you be a healthier version of yourself. You want to call it masculine or feminine?  I don't know what the point of that would be. Instead, let's call it you learning how to take up more space in your own psyche even when you're around other people.

Jane:                Yeah. Oh, how do I—yeah. How do I do that?

Jessica:            Okay. All right.

Jane:                Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jessica:            Let's go. Okay.

Jane:                I'm with you. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            I'm going to give you an example.

Jane:                Okay.

Jessica:            So you're not going on dates with any man right now?

Jane:                No.

Jessica:            Do you have friends?

Jane:                Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. I'm actually seeing that there's a woman friend that I think maybe has curly hair or darker hair—not super dark hair, but—

Jane:                Oh. I have a ginger friend with curly hair.

Jessica:            Is this person young?

Jane:                She's younger than me.

Jessica:            Yeah. Okay. Okay. I'm seeing her correctly, then. Okay. So, when you hang out with her, do you do that devotional thing where you kind of agree with her a lot?

Jane:                Yeah, because she kind of drives me crazy sometimes.

Jessica:            Okay.

Jane:                And I never—I bite my tongue, and I'm like, "Yeah, that was the right thing to do." And I'm like, no.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And do you do that because—and you can have any answer. This is not a test. But do you do that because you genuinely believe if you disagreed with her, that she wouldn't like you anymore or that she would be hurt?

Jane:                It's—the impulse is I would hurt her.

Jessica:            Okay.

Jane:                And I don't want to—and then it's scary, and it's childhood shit and all that. But yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. I accept that answer, and I'm going to push on it a little further.

Jane:                Okay.

Jessica:            Do you believe that it would hurt her feelings if you disagreed with her, based on what you know of this person?

Jane:                Yeah, I believe that. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Do you believe that this is a healthy relationship for you to be in?

Jane:                No, not like this. No.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. Cool.

Jane:                I've been thinking about that for a while, actually. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. So the question is are you interested in changing? Not are you ready. Not are you committing. Just are you interested?

Jane:                Checking in with that because—

Jessica:            Yeah.

Jane:                —I feel like the answer should be yes, and—

Jessica:            No, no, no. We're not going with shoulds. We're just going with actual interest.

Jane:                Yeah. Well, what's interesting to me at the moment is how removed from life I've been on autopilot all around after pushing, pushing, pushing, it feels, for a long time. So am I interested—I think my gut is saying no.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's validation of how you got here and why you're still here. It's just information. So this relationship with this person, who I'm going to call Barbara, is not super important to you. It's kind of a filler relationship—kind of a close relationship, but in truth, kind of a filler relationship. Am I correct?

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            We have those sometimes. What I'm going to share with you for you to noodle around on is what you have to lose in this relationship is nothing much, because she kind of uses you as a dumping ground, and you kind of use her as somebody to just be around. You're not really relating to each other. You're not really tending to each other. You're not really caring for each other. It's not that kind of—am I seeing this correctly?

Jane:                Yeah. I would say both ways, mutual dumping ground.

Jessica:            Okay.

Jane:                And that's kind of how the relationship [crosstalk].

Jessica:            Okay. You dump with her as well?

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. So, for you, it always begins with interest. And because you're so insecure and frightened, your emotions overwhelm your mind. And so your mind's not interested because, "All hands on deck. We need to get away from the danger of being a bad person by hurting this woman's feelings."

Jane:                Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            My assignment for you is, the next time you hang out with her, notice that impulse and action. Just say to yourself, "I'm not interested in changing in this way at this time, but I can be interested in how I function in this relationship where I'm not in love with her. I don't need her. That's not what this is. I'm going on some sort of an autopilot." Can you be interested in your own autopilot without judgments?

Jane:                Yeah—well, without judgments—that's a good—

Jessica:            I know. I threw it in the mix.

Jane:                Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in particular, this relationship reminds me—or it felt like my mom, in a way.

Jessica:            Yes. Not just in a way—in 100 ways.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Jane:    It's my mom's relationship. Yeah.

Jessica:            It's you and your mom. Yeah. But ultimately, it's just you. At almost 40, it's just you. It's your mom 100 percent, and also, it's you. It's your role that you choose to play with your mom. It's your role that you choose to play with Barbara.

Jane:                Right.

Jessica:            So why not—not from a highly analytic, self-aware "I tell the story of my experience" place, but from a practiced experiential place, next time you hang out with this person, catch yourself denying that the sky is blue. Catch yourself abandoning yourself. Catch yourself mirroring her. Just catch it. Just watch it. This is not so you can judge it. It's not so you can beat yourself up. It's not even so you can change your behavior. It's because awareness is interesting.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And when you get new information, you can't help but track it, follow it, be curious about it. And if you catch yourself not being curious, that's fucking interesting, too, because you're always curious.

Jane:                Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jessica:            So what I want to encourage you to do is to know this. Your relationship with Barbara is your relationship with another human. Your relationship with other humans is not specific to women or men. What you're doing with Barbara you do with every guy you go on first dates with.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And if you want somebody—and now I'm going to describe what I think you should have, okay?

Jane:                Oh. Okay.

Jessica:            "Should" is a big word. "Should" is a big word. And I don't stand by the word "should." I disavow it, however I said it, and I'm going to keep on talking. If you were to have a healthy partnership with somebody who was romantic through actions at times but at the end of the day was straightforward and reliable—like if he said he'd be there at 5:00, he'd be there at 5:00, or he'd let you know. Somebody who said, "Oh, you know, I think humor is great, but I don't really like sarcasm," then he actually meant it—that wouldn't work for you. You're very sarcastic.

Jane:                Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            But you need somebody who is what he says and says what he is. But that same guy is not going to want to be with you if you are not also somebody who knows what they are and say what they are and does what they say, not out of a kind of servitude, which is your habit—

Jane:                Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            —but instead out of clarity. "This is who I am. I'm to give myself permission to be who I am." This requires self-possession. This is not a fancy set of actions. It's not something you need to learn. Those behaviors are a result of self-possession.

Jane:                Okay.

Jessica:            And so the practice of hanging out with Barbara and being like, "Oh shit. I just agreed with her for the last hour about something that I fervently disagree with. Noted"—just the practice of recognizing when you have disposed of your self-possession, you are not in possession of the self.

Jane:                Yeah, because I was thinking—because that literally happened yesterday. I was on the phone with her for like an hour doing the same—and I couldn't remember the details she was telling because I'm like—God, I was like, "I feel like you're to blame for part of this." I wasn't—

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jane:                —showing up with that.

Jessica:            And do you want friends who, if you tell a whole story, and they're like, "It sounds like you kind of did something, too"—or would that also hurt your feelings and make you feel like they were rejecting you?

Jane:                Oh, yeah, that would hurt my feelings.

Jessica:            Okay. Great information for you to have. You don't like honesty.

Jane:                No. No. Well, no, I mean—what do I—yeah, no, I like when my feelings are put above, I guess.

Jessica:            Okay. That's great information for you to have.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And it's worth exploring because it's interesting. You like honesty in other contexts, right?

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's tough because if you don't really like honesty and you don't really know how to be honest and you're dating men, you could see how this sets you up for a situation you don't actually want to be in.

Jane:                Oh yeah, which would make me avoid dating at all.

Jessica:            Now we have a lot of context for the last couple decades.

Jane:                Yeah. I'm perplexed about that, if I like honesty or not. I—yeah.

Jessica:            Take a moment and breathe and think about your friendships, primarily with women, and when you have been honest with them or not and whether or not they are honest with you. Do you cultivate friendships with women who just say yes to you and agree with you and prop up your perspective or say, "Actually, no"?

Jane:                The relationships I value the most were from college years, and there was a distancing that happened because of my emotional stuff, I would say. But it was because we couldn't be honest with each other. What I'm trying to get to is I value the—because we've reconnected, and the heartfelt honesty that was there to reconnect, that's what I value.

Jessica:            But let me push on that a little because you say the heartfelt honesty to reconnect, but have you disagreed with them about anything? And also, if they as individuals—any of them—disagreed with you about anything that you were saying or doing or feeling, would you like that? Would that feel like a betrayal to you?

Jane:                Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, it feels like a betrayal, I guess. Yeah.

Jessica:            Interesting.

Jane:                [crosstalk].

Jessica:            Interesting.

Jane:                I've been trying to soften those, quote unquote, "blows" that are not blows when I know people are just expressing how they feel.

Jessica:            So it's interesting, because—you like the readings I give?

Jane:                Yes. I'm here. Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah, you're here. Well, this is what's interesting, because I am unusually blunt—

Jane:                Really?

Jessica:            —and direct.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            You don't think I'm very honest and direct and blunt?

Jane:                Well, maybe what I'm confusing is kindness with cruelty, and I'm hearing honesty as cruelty, which is not what it is.

Jessica:            No, no, no. Let's hang out there.

Jane:                Okay. Yeah.

Jessica:            Let's hang out there. Feminine is procreation, and honesty is cruelty. We are unpacking some very important concepts. Okay.

Jane:                Yeah, we are.

Jessica:            We are. And this is why it's so important to have a critical thinking lens with our base assumptions, right?

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Because when you hear me giving readings to strangers, you're like, "Oh. She's being honest. She's getting in there. She's being kind, but she's being"—nobody has ever been like, "Oh, you're the most gentle astrologer in town." Nobody's ever said that to me. I mean, you can't possibly think I'm the most gentle astrologer in town.

Jane:                But your intention is—I feel the kindness.

Jessica:            Kindness.

Jane:                I feel like it's more for a means, right?

Jessica:            Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, when you were on the phone with Barbara last night and Barbara was telling you all this silly shit she's doing—yeah. I see silly shit.

Jane:                Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            You don't think it would be a kindness to her to say, "Babe, you're participating in this. If you really want to feel better, you could handle it differently"?

Jane:                That sounds like a good option I didn't know. Yeah.

Jessica:            That's a kindness, right?

Jane:                Yeah. Wow. I'm so cut off from feeling like that's possible, to speak up—

Jessica:            Yeah. Just be honest.

Jane:                —and have it—yeah. It feels like such a threat to other people.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Here's the thing. I think a big difference between honesty that is kind versus honesty that is nice—what you're doing is nice. "Yeah, girl. Yeah. I totally see it from your perspective. Yeah. You're right. They're wrong. Oh my God. They did that? That makes no sense." That's nice. You're just validating, validating, validating so she feels good, and you are beyond reproach. However, the kindness would be, "You have all this spinach in your teeth, my friend Barbara."

Jane:                Right.

Jessica:            "You are participating in this. If you want your life to be different, do you want advice? Can I help you figure out ways of being different?" The truth is that you've already said—and I believe it's true—that if somebody did that to you, you would feel attacked.

Jane:                Yeah. Yeah. That's how I—yeah. Unfortunately.

Jessica:            Yeah. You would feel attacked.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And therefore, you feel that it would be attacking her. If you have friends that you trust, that you respect, then letting them know when they have spinach in their teeth, letting them know when they're being really demanding and not giving people space to come to them—which I think is part of what Barbara does, right? They just kind of steamroll people. Am I seeing this correctly?

Jane:                Yeah. Yeah, she does. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Jane:                [indiscernible 00:55:26]. Yeah.

Jessica:            She steamrolls. So being able to say to your friend, "Hey, Barbara, you're really being a dick. You're participating in this. You're to blame"—that's mean. Saying to Barbara, "Hey, Barbara, do you want feedback, or do you want me to just listen?" And if she says, "I just want you to listen. I want to vent," great. Shut up. Be supportive. But if she says, "I would love feedback," then the kindness would be saying, "Have you considered letting the other people kind of figure things out in their own space and giving them space, and then whatever they show you about themselves, actually just accept it and then change your expectations?"

Jane:                Oh. Right. Yeah.

Jessica:            You could say something that is like, "Have you considered doing these things?" instead of, "What you're doing is wrong."

Jane:                Right.

Jessica:            The problem here is—there's a couple problems. One is you don't know your perspective because you know your perspective, and then you're like—shove-shove, pound-pound. You just shove down your perspectives. So it's hard for you to access it. And then the other thing is, if that would feel like meanness to you, then of course you're not going to do it to other people.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And so do you have a friend who you genuinely trust their perspective?

Jane:                At least one, yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. What's their name?

Jane:                [redacted].

Jessica:            Okay. So she's like a newer friend?

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Is she more direct and honest?

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Jane:                She stands her ground. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Jane:                Oh, than me? Oh yeah. For sure. Yeah.

Jessica:            No, I meant than most of your friends.

Jane:                I respect her. Yeah. She owns her truth. She's really—she's good about that.

Jessica:            So what I'm trying to get you to see is that you trust her because you believe that she'll tell you the truth.

Jane:                Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah.

Jessica:            There's a lot of reasons why you don't trust Barbara, but one of them is because you can trust that she will not tell you the truth—

Jane:                Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jessica:            —because she's doing what you're doing. She's just propping you up instead of being a true friend to you.

Jane:                Placating. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yep. Placating. There you go.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            I want to encourage you to just explore these ideas and practice, if you can, asking questions. You might have noticed at the beginning of our conversation, you shared your question. It wasn't a very long question. And I asked you 70 questions about your single question, right?

Jane:                Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And as I asked you those questions, you started to get a lot of information based on your answers.

Jane:                Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            That is how friendship works. I think it can be how friendship works. You don't always have to be like, "Girl, what are you doing?" Instead, you can be asking questions. "What are you really feeling about this person? When you said that, what was the—that you were hoping for? How did you say it?" You can ask questions as a way to be more kind and more honest without being quite as direct as I'm being, right? Because I'm giving you a reading.

Jane:                Sure. Yeah.

Jessica:            It's a different situation.

Jane:                Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear you. Yeah. That's good.

Jessica:            This is neither feminine nor masculine, by the way. It is both assertive—

Jane:                Right.

Jessica:            —and diplomatic or passive, right? And that's really the best-case scenario in a friendship, is that you can take up space with what you believe and what you are convicted around and also take a step back and let your friend take up space.

Jane:                Yeah. The—yeah, respecting spaces, like, existing.

Jessica:            Yes. Yes. So I just want to say—

Jane:                [crosstalk].

Jessica:            —all of this, we're talking about friends. Different style, same shit, with men. If you can only date men that agree with you and never challenge you, first of all, I don't know who those men are. And second of all, yeah, then you're not going to ever be able to trust him because you won't really know what's on his mind.

Jane:                Right. Yeah.

Jessica:            And any man—

Jane:                And I don't want that.

Jessica:            Of course you don't want that. Of course you don't. And any man who really wants to be partnered with a woman who never asserts her perspective or her opinions is not going to be the greatest guy in the world.

Jane:                No, no, no, no, no, no.

Jessica:            Right?

Jane:                Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Because we live in patriarchy, and there's a larger social context to that, to a woman being passive with a man, right?

Jane:                Oh, 1,000 percent. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            So I know we're reaching the boundaries of your overwhelm, so let me just, before we end—

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            —okay—say this: I do believe that you can be partnered. I do.

Jane:                Thanks.

Jessica:            Yeah. And I don't believe that everyone gets partnership. I don't believe everyone should get partnership. I don't genuinely know that you want to date. Part of that is because if it's not super fun on a date, then it's super—it's like a task for you.

Jane:                It's work.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's work. Exactly.

Jane:                Yeah. It's work. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            I do feel that, for you, having friends that are guys would be great because then you could have a more organic connection that could theoretically bloom, or in the words of my mother when I was 13 years old, it doesn't matter who you date. It matters who his friends are because that's who you're really going to date down the line. In other words—

Jane:                Oh. Funny. Yeah.

Jessica:            —men are friends with men. You can just become friends with somebody, and maybe you'll organically meet somebody, and that's like a whole nice thing.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Setting the goal that you're going to go out and date is like—it's very contrived for you, and it's not the best flow for you. It's not a good workflow is the way I'll say it. And so online dating is not your friend, really. I imagine that it's not fun for you.

Jane:                The lie I've been telling myself to keep going on it died in the last couple years. So, yeah, I'm—

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jane:                I'm tapped out.

Jessica:            Listen. If it was going to be fun, you would have to do this: you would have to decide, "This is interesting. I'm going to go and practice being 100 percent myself with this stranger and see what happens."

Jane:                Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [crosstalk].

Jessica:            If you did that, it would be worth it. Yeah. It would be worth it. Again, you are motivated by interest. And so I want to just share that with you. Prioritize being curious about what you're curious about. You have Mercury opposite fucking Uranus. You're interested deeply in things for five minutes.

Jane:                Mm-hmm. Yep.

Jessica:            There's nothing bad about that. There's nothing bad about that, as long as you give yourself permission to have a changing mind. And this applies to men, right? This applies to men because you are allowed to like someone and then have an interaction with him and then stop liking him. That doesn't make you a bad person. If you go on 30 dates with someone, you are not promising him to like him forever. You are only promising to have done what you've promised to do.

Jane:                Yeah. A bit of a container around it.

Jessica:            Yes. And more specifically, you have a series of assumptions attached to lots of individual things. And what I'm trying to be like is, be curious about each of those individual assumptions so that you don't try to force yourself into commitments that you're actually not even making.

Jane:                Right. Yes. Right. Yeah. I heard—something heard you. Yes. I got that.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. Great. Okay. Good. Good, good, good.

Jane:                Because I'm trying to projectile-launch myself into a future that doesn't exist before anything—before I even open the door, it's like, "Oh God. I gotta make this a whole thing"—

Jessica:            Yes. Correct. Yes.

Jane:                —"before I even leave my house."

Jessica:            And that extends itself to, "Shit. Am I supposed to be more feminine? I'm supposed to be less masculine? I don't even know what those words mean. I don't even know if I care." So be more interested in your assumptions, and then give yourself permission to be curious about those things. Explore those things, and be self-possessed at what you land with.

Jane:                Own my perspective.

Jessica:            Yes. Yes.

Jane:                Think about it. Be curious. Then own the fact—like you were saying before, "Hey, I'm not really interested in being a parent, the day-to-day. Could that change? Maybe." But that's a place to be.

Jessica:            Yes.

Jane:                That's a place to physically, three-dimensionally be.

Jessica:            Yes. Yeah.

Jane:                I have—I'm sure maybe you saw it—just a rat's nest of, like, "But what's the right one?"

Jessica:            Exactly. Calling it a rat's nest feels very accurate to what I'm seeing. Yes. And even when you say it versus when I say it, you're like, "This is where I've landed at, but, but, but"—your energy really attaches to the buts.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And so it's about practicing spending a little more time breathing into, "I have this certainty," and also, "But I'm going to hang out with the certainty that doesn't invalidate the 'and alsos' and the 'maybes.'" "And alsos" and the "maybes"—let them be where they are. But you actually have certainty. You're 39 years old, and you—other than the micro moments—have not wanted to procreate, to parent, to coparent. You haven't even though about coparenting.

Jane:                No.

Jessica:            So, grounding in, give yourself permission to own the little things you've got, the little things you know about yourself. Knowing that, you could change your mind in an hour. That's okay. And today, in this moment, you know this thing.

Jane:                That feels so risky to do, but yeah.

Jessica:            Interesting. What's the risk?

Jane:                It feels so scary to say, "This is where I am." It feels like I need to stay above the ground and not land, it feels like.

Jessica:            Are you a nature girly at all?

Jane:                Yeah. I go on hikes all the time to—

Jessica:            Okay. Ground. Right. That makes sense.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And is there any bit of nature right outside your house or apartment?

Jane:                Yeah. I'm at my sister's. There's a nice park down the way. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. So maybe just, if you can, go touch grass. Put your little feets in the little ground, even if it's directly outside—not on cement, if possible. And just sit with the part where it's like, "Yeah, I know this thing. I know I really like the color pink, and also, I don't like wearing pink. And also, this. And also, that." You know? Okay, whatever, all the things. "But there is this one piece of certainty that I have about myself, and it could change in a moment. It is what it is." Give yourself permission to sit with, on the ground—do it physically—little things you know about yourself. And you can be uncomfortable with it, and it can feel unsafe. So you can hold it for—I don't know—35 seconds.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            If that feels like it's pushing, fine. 35 seconds is great. Start where you are. It doesn't matter if the most you can do is 10 seconds. Start with 10 seconds because if you continue this practice, your 10 seconds will become 35 seconds.

Jane:                Right.

Jessica:            And that can become, over time with practice, minutes, hours. Will it become days? Maybe. Maybe not. That's okay. Expanding the practice of self-possession doesn't take anything from anyone. And possessing one truth does not mean that 70 other assumptions are attached to it that you're locked into now.

Jane:                Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Jane:                Okay. Right. Right.

Jessica:            Yes.

Jane:                Yeah. Got that in my gut.

Jessica:            Okay. Good. That feels like a really important part, just like if you say to a friend, "Babe, really, say more about that," when she reports that she just did something ridiculous, that doesn't mean that you're being mean to her, and it doesn't mean that you're going to do it every time you talk.

Jane:                Right.

Jessica:            But you might say it at one time. That's all. That's all. So these are just practices for you to explore, or not.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            The last thing I'm going to say to you is this: you've got great intuition.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            You've got really loud anxiety but great intuition. Yeah.

Jane:                Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            So having great intuition—it's kind of like being a tree planted in the perfect environment. It gets the right amount of sun and the right amount of rain, and it's the right tree for the climate. It's a very happy, well-placed tree. And then your anxiety—it's like a big building placed in front of the sun that blocks some of the rain.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            The cool thing about buildings is you can tear them down.

Jane:                Okay.

Jessica:            Your access to intuition is—it's very strong. And the cultivation of self-possession—just possessing the parts of yourself that you have awareness of in the moment—will have this really lovely unintended consequence of giving you greater access to your intuition—

Jane:                Wow. Yeah.

Jessica:            —which is so valuable on every level of your life, you know?

Jane:                Yeah. Right.

Jessica:            And is your intuition masculine or feminine?  I don't know what it matters. Don't even think about it in one way or another. Intuition is intuition, and it can come in lots of ways and it can serve you in lots of ways. You can navigate it in lots of ways. And practicing just giving yourself the ability to receive yourself—

Jane:                Yeah. Right.

Jessica:            That makes sense, why they're connected, right?

Jane:                Yeah. Right.

Jessica:            And for you, they're very—I mean, we could say that that's a truism for all people, for sure. But in your chart, this is like a really beautiful consequence of self-possession is your access to intuition.

Jane:                Right.

Jessica:            And so, even when you're ambiguous about the point with guys or the point with friends, I don't think you're that ambiguous about the point of having greater access to your intuition. So there's a little extra motivation for you.

Jane:                Thank you. I'm welling up with tears again. Thanks.

Jessica:            It is my pleasure.

Jane:                I just want to say, during this reading, some of my insecurity was coming up. I don't know if you felt it or not. And I almost wanted to be like, "Am I okay?" to you. And then the fact that you said my intuition is really strong is helpful because I feel like that's my saving grace, I guess, in the long run.

Jessica:            It is, and also, it would have been totally fine for you to ask. And also, do you know why you didn't ask me if you were okay?

Jane:                I was scared it was a needy question.

Jessica:            Oh. Okay. So you were scared of me judging you for asking the question.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Interesting. I don't want to create this if it's not true, but is it possible that you didn't ask me the question because you knew what I was going to say?

Jane:                Oh, yeah, that's a bit of it, too. I just feel like, "You know what she's going to say. Yes."

Jessica:            Yeah. And do you think that I would say you're okay if I didn't think you were? Do you think I would say that to placate you the way you would with your friends?

Jane:                Ah, you got me again.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm.

Jane:                Yeah. You caught me again. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Jane:                Yeah. I thought you would. Yeah.

Jessica:            So the thing about me and the reason why I'm a pain in the ass is, when people ask me questions, I just answer them. So, if I actually think you're not okay, I would probably say that, and I would help you unpack it.

Jane:                Okay.

Jessica:            And what I'm trying to get at here is—and this is going to sound harsh. I don't mean it to, but I don't know any other way to say it.

Jane:                Sure. Yeah.

Jessica:            Liars think everyone's lying to them.

Jane:                Oh. Oh. So—yeah, because I'm not possessing my damn self. Right.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Jane:                I'm not owning—yeah.

Jessica:            You're not owning. And so listen.

Jane:                Right.

Jessica:            Your intuition told you, "Jessica is going to say I'm okay," and then your brain said, "because of course she would. I would say it. Anyone would say it."

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            But I'm actually suggesting that your intuition said, "I know I'm okay, and I know she's going to say I'm okay." And then your personality interpreted that intuitive knowing with this thing that you do to make everyone unreliable, including yourself. Right?

Jane:                Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            "She's a nice woman, so she'll say something nice to me," which—by the way, I'm not nice. I mean, I think I'm very kind, but anyone who knows me knows I'm not that nice. I would give you the honest truth as I perceive it. And it is absolutely possible that in that moment it was completely just your assumptions that, "She's nice. She'll say something nice to me." And I want to just suggest that it's also true that your intuition said, "I don't need to ask her if I'm okay because I know that she's going to validate that I'm okay.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And that's actually knowing that you had. Now, again, I'm not trying to create it and be idealistic. But I think you—because of your dishonesty to yourself and with others and your desire for others to be dishonest with you—

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            —you've created your worst-case scenario where nobody is reliable, including yourself. And I want to just say this is a very difficult thing to work through, but it's not at all an impossible thing to work through.

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            At all. And I do think you have very good intuition, and I do think that was partially your intuition being like, "I don't need to ask this question."

Jane:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And again, I want to encourage you to get yourself a shrink who is direct and challenges you and to set the intention that you talk with her—and it should be a her—that you talk with her about how it makes you feel when she's direct.

Jane:                Right. Yeah.

Jessica:            Set that intention that you're paying somebody, and this is the relationship that you want to learn how to have. So you're going to take pains to be direct and forthcoming and honest. And talk to her about how hard it is for you to do that and how, when she said something challenging, it made you feel a certain kind of way. That's my advice to you, okay?

Jane:                Long story short, my last therapist—that's what I started practicing because the previous therapist couldn't do it—

Jessica:            Yep.

Jane:                —ended the relationship because of it. But the last one was me pushing that a little bit.

Jessica:            Great.

Jane:                So it's there. It's there a little.

Jessica:            Great. Good. Okay. Great.

Jane:                Gotta expand. Gotta expand.

Jessica:            And expand as slowly as you need to. There's no timeline here.

Jane:                Okay.

Jessica:            So I know we went a little off course from feminine/masculine, but did we nail it? Did we address your question?

Jane:                Yeah, because at the root of it, it's just being in myself, having space for myself, and stopping with the external crap.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jane:                If anyone can.

Jessica:            Yeah. You can. You can. And also, at your pace, in your way.

Jane:                Okay. All right.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jane:                Thank you so much from my soul. As soon as I got notice of the reading, my whole body smiled, and it was just—

Jessica:            Oh.

Jane:                I've been having the zoomies since then.

Jessica:            Woo. Okay. Thank you. That's very exciting. I'm so happy. Well, I'm so glad we got to do this.

Jane:                This was great. Thank you so much.