Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Jessica:            Sandy, welcome to the podcast. What would you like a reading about?

Sandy:             Thank you, Jessica. I will read my question. "This past year, I have watched a dear friend dive deep into spiritual work in the wake of three significant losses. At first, the spirituality appeared helpful for his grief, but his engagement with guides and ancestors slowly progressed to belief that he was hearing them constantly. In heeding their messages, he has put himself into unsafe situations, including leaving his house in the middle of the night and driving in circles for hours while ingesting mind-altering substances. I'm not asking a question about his care or prognosis. I find myself confused about my own beliefs and how to hold them while seeking to separate his apparent psychosis from what was a shared spirituality between us. How can I call what I believe real while calling what he believes delusion?"

Jessica:            Oh God. That's such an intense question and such an intense situation, and also so very fucking real because, yeah, it's a fine line with a lot of things. With substance use, with mental health, and with spirituality, there are really fine lines between what's healthy and what's not. This is a deep question. So we're going to get into it. Is this still an active situation? Is he still—

Sandy:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. He's still in it. And are the two of you super close?

Sandy:             Close but not in daily contact.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. Thank you for that context. Let me pull up your chart. Let's go straight there, okay?

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            You were born September 8th of '78 in Greenbrae, California, at 3:47 a.m. Pacific. So there's layers upon layers upon layers of this question. One part of this question is kind of about navigating the friendship, and one part of this question is about navigating your spirituality and also mental health. Am I understanding that?

Sandy:             Yeah. I think the sticking point for me has been observing what appears to be psychosis or just what I cannot believe is real, what is really happening, but how to delineate that as different from me believing that I hear—not voices, but messages from ancestors, me believing that I get guidance from guides.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Sandy:             The nuance of how to hold them separate has me feeling kind of lost.

Jessica:            Yeah. Okay. So let me start off by just talking to you about this, about boundaries I hold, because when we are talking about listening to guidance, having our ancestors speak to me, talking to dead people, talking to animals, there's a very fine line between that being a spiritual experience and a mental health crisis, right? Those things can show up in mental health crises, and they can show up in spiritual experiences. And sometimes a mental health crisis includes very authentic and real spiritual experiences. And sometimes very authentic spiritual experiences overlap with mental health crises.

                        And so here's some boundaries I hold because I—as a medium and a psychic and somebody who really listens to my guides and all this kind of stuff, I like having therapists. And I always am like, "This is my experience. Let's talk about it in the context of mental health." And I think that that's a really important thing for those of us who like therapy and have therapists, to not hide it, because it's nice to have an expert hang out with you in that space.

                        But some boundaries that I want to just share and get your thoughts on—when the voices—we'll call them voices. When you're hearing your guidance, you're not hearing voices exactly, eh?

Sandy:             Correct.

Jessica:            Correct. Yeah. When your guidance or the voices that you hear tell you that you are better than other people or worse than other people—red flag. When they tell you to do something, period—when they tell you to do something, red flag. Our guides, even our ancestors, when they do communicate, when we as humans in our sweet little meat suits receive that communication, very rarely are they like, "Open the door. Turn the key. Walk outside. Don't forget your hat."

They don't give us clear, linear instructions, usually. And it is a red flag when you hear it. And that red flag doesn't mean for sure it's dangerous, but it means I'm going to slow down, get curious, get grounded, and if it's happening to me, I'm going to kind of check with external resources that I trust.

And then there is erratic behavior. When hearing guidance and all the stuff we're talking about coincides with erratic behavior, sudden changes in personality, the drive to cut people off or let people way too close in—all of this is, for me, really important red flags. And then, finally and very importantly—and I know that this may—I don't know if you're also using drugs alongside your friend. Are you a little bit?

Sandy: Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Mm-hmm. So I know that this might be a little triggering for you, and I know it's going to be triggering for some people listening because people get really mad at me about my attitudes about substance use. But when we are navigating the ethereal plane and doing it with drugs, I firmly believe—and a lot of people disagree with me on this—that it is unwise because now you've opened two doors at the same time, and you don't know how to defend yourself, protect yourself, or, really, navigate what's on the other side of either of those doors.

                        So, from my perspective, when we use mind- or energy-altering substances, it puts holes. It creates permeability in our field. That's part of why there's insights and you feel greater connection to other things and you're able to put down certain linear perceptions and open up more interconnected perceptions. But with that permeability and in those holes can come literally anything—entities, really negative influences, way too much information all at once, and more.

                        And so this is why, a lot of times, when people use drugs, they have mental health crises: because you've opened a door; anything can come in—may have been 15 things came in. And it can fuck your system up. And so I'm guessing that all of my red flags align with this guy's behavior.

Sandy:             Similar. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Okay. The substances that you all are using—are you comfortable talking about it?

Sandy:             I am, and there is a difference in sort of practices between he and I and really what I see as problematic in his case specifically that I don't fuck with. But yes.

Jessica:            Say more. Say more about that. I'm assuming you started in the same place, and then he kept going and you didn't.

Sandy:             There—yeah. Nitrous, specifically, has been a—

Jessica:            Nitrous? Are we talking about nitrous like laughing gas?

Sandy:             It's the balloons that you—

Jessica:            The balloons. Right. Now they sell, like, canisters, right?

Sandy:             Correct. Yeah.

Jessica:            They come for those brain cells, but it feels nice. So you started with that?

Sandy:             Not my jam specifically, but this seems to be the most problematic—

Jessica:            For him?

Sandy:             —substance for him. Yeah. And he also—

Jessica:            Oh. Wait, wait, wait. Let me slow you down. I actually want to ask you to share this with me chronologically.

Sandy:             Okay.

Jessica:            The two of you started imbibing what at the same time?

Sandy:             Well, as part of a group who parties together, you know, party drugs.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Sandy:             So MDMA, mushrooms, acid, nitrous—not necessarily with the expressed intent of spirituality, but—

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. Partying.

Sandy:             Partying. Yeah. And specifically, this gentleman now—the nitrous became more of a regular daily, not a party, occurrence because he believed that that's when he heard his guides the best.

Jessica:            And have you looked at the side effects of nitrous?

Sandy:             No.

Jessica:            Fascinating. Really? Fascinating. I have the instinct that I want to look it up right now with you, but I also don't want to Google MD this conversation in any way. But I want to say please do that.

Sandy:             Okay.

Jessica:            Please do that because you may find that the side effect of the nitrous is consistent with his behavior.

Sandy:             I do believe that to be true. Yeah.

Jessica:            I do believe it to be true because I've known people to use nitrous that have kind of similar experiences, actually.

Sandy:             Okay.

Jessica:            But I don't know if that's a coincidence. You know what I mean? I don't know if it's a coincidence or if that's factual. So we want to say, okay, there's anecdotal information, and then there's research/scientific information. And we want to not just stop at the anecdotal information, right?

Sandy:             Got it.

Jessica:            But okay. So you started just having a party lifestyle, and this guy is a part of your community where you all just have fun.

Sandy:             Yep.

Jessica:            And then you and him both started having spiritual experiences alongside or within these experiences?

Sandy:             He and I discovered that we have shared beliefs in terms of we're both into the woo, we both astro—the spirituality not necessarily being tied to the drugs or the partying, but just more this was a common ground that we shared.

Jessica:            I see, I see, I see. Okay. And what is your substance use like at this time?

Sandy:             Party drugs, maybe once every six weeks.

Jessica:            Okay. And when you say party drugs, do you mean like that cocktail that you just described?

Sandy:             I do. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. And when you're doing those party drugs, obviously, hopefully, you're having fun. Are you having fun?

Sandy:             Oh yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Cool. So you're having fun. What a bummer if you're not, right? So you're having fun, and also, you're having spiritual experiences, or not necessarily?

Sandy:             No, I would hold them separately.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. But he doesn't hold them separately anymore?

Sandy:             That's my understanding.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to be a total boner killer, but—

Sandy:             Please.

Jessica:            —'tis my specialty. 'Tis my specialty. I am of the mind—and again, a lot of people would disagree with me. But I am of the mind that if you are opening up spiritually, if you're becoming more energetically sensitive, if you are developing relationship with your guidance, if you are channeling or speaking with dead people, if your psychic or empathic skills are expanding, what will happen with your drug use, your substance use, is it'll be funner, funner, funner, funner, and then there will be a peak moment where it's like, "Ooh. Yes." And then you'll start to have the down, and it's like more physiological things are going to happen; more mental health things are going to happen.

                        And this is, in my experience, very common, and people just push through and do different drug cocktails and do more distracting things. But the reason why I tend to find that this happens is because—let's say you have something on your skin, and they give you topical steroids. You use the topical steroids until the thing is gone. But if you keep using the topical steroids after the thing is gone, then the topical steroids becomes something that fucks up your skin.

                        Similarly, if you use drugs in part to open up and access joy or access your guidance or whatever, you get more and more open. And as I said earlier, anything can come in. Anything can come in. You know what I mean?

Sandy:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And so things do come in. And because we are humans in bodies, we do not have the ability to be like, "Huh. This terrible headache I've had all day is actually because I walked past somebody who has migraines, and I'm really empathic now, and I don't know how to take care of it.  I don't know how to shield it off." Again, drugs put permeability, a.k.a. holes, in your fields.

                        So I don't mean to shit on your fun time. I'm just really good at it, so it's very difficult for me to figure out what to do. But to your question of—you're seeing this guy behave in ways that were just like you, and now, all of a sudden, you're like, "Ahh. How come I'm criticizing him and not myself?" Some of this might be about luck. Your mental health, maybe, is just different than his, and so you could take the substance use. Maybe he encountered something on an energetic field that just fucked something up. And from there, with something like nitrous, there are some very dangerous things that can happen from that place.

                        So, unfortunately, part of what this calls into question is your substance use and how it does or doesn't serve you on the path of your spirituality, so not in terms of your health, not in terms of your social life, not in terms of drugs are good or bad, but in terms of your specific question around your spirituality. Does this feel correct?

Sandy:             Yes. I am seeing the throughline, for sure, because I mean I've been carrying some guilt that these are things that we engage in together that are clearly problematic for him.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Sandy:             And with members of the community, there have been some lines drawn, like, "Okay. You can't fuck with nitrous anymore. Just let it be."

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Sandy:             And on the short term, that does seem to have been the right choice. The deeper part of this question—you know, how do I detangle—I just—how can I call what I think is happening to me real, but—I mean, it could be—remove friend with apparent psychosis from the equation. It could be anyone else's belief that I look at and say, "There's no way that's right." But how can I hold something that I say is real and look at one someone else has believed and say, "No, but that's not real"?

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. I mean, people of all religions do it every damn day. They say their relationship to God is real and your relationship to God is not. So, when you say, "How can I?"—I mean, easy as pie. So American—I mean, not exclusively American. I mean, most all religions do that. So how can you? Everyone does it.

                        Okay. But let's pull back to the real truth of your question. How about this. What's your favorite color—

Sandy:             Blue.

Jessica:            —for clothing? Blue. Good. You're wearing a blue shirt. Your little filter is wearing a blue shirt. Okay. So do you sometimes put on blue clothing or encounter a blue house or a blue car and be like, "Ew. I don't like that"?

Sandy:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay.  What I'm getting at is just because you have a yes to something doesn't mean you abandon discretion and common sense. It doesn't mean you don't have preferences or boundaries within that yes. You are having spiritual experiences, and you are partying. And you are also seeing somebody who is doing those things in ways that deeply concern you. I am not saying don't question yourself. I am not saying don't change your behavior. I want to be real clear. I'm not saying either of those things. We haven't gotten, really, to that part. But I am saying the way we keep each other safe, the way we keep each other accountable, is by being critical—not critical like pick, pick, pick, but critical like thinking about thinking while thinking. You've been in a relationship, right? You've dated, right?

Sandy:             Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. Okay. Sometimes you were the asshole. Sometimes you were not the asshole, right?

Sandy:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Situations, relationships—and you want your friends to be like, "You're good at relationships, but in this situation, you're doing something maybe not nice," or, "You're not being honest with this person," or whatever it is. Just because you know how to be in a relationship doesn't mean you know how to always be in a relationship, right? Does this make sense?

Sandy:             Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Okay.

Sandy:             Making space for being humans who make mistakes.

Jessica:            Real talk 2025. So not only is it about making space, it's about you giving yourself permission to understand that while you might think, "Okay. Spiritual experiences—yes. Drugs—yes," you may also see in some people that, "I feel really uncomfortable. Everything in my body is saying that's a no." Right?

Sandy:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Some people can smoke weed. They smoke weed, and they're happy. They smoke weed, and they're calm. Other people smoke weed, and they're paranoid, and they feel like they're dying, and they call the cops on themselves. Just because something works for you doesn't mean it works for someone else. And also, some people smoke weed for ten years, and then they wake up one day and they smoke weed, and it feels different. It feels bad. Their body changes. And I'm just talking about weed, which is kind of like a super minor drug.

                        I want to kind of bring our focus a little bit to your birth chart for just a minute. In your birth chart, you have a Sun/Neptune square. The issue of boundaries is so hard for you. It's really not just in this situation. It is hard for you because you are permeable, and you have a devotional way of showing up in friendship and in dating and all that. And so there's a part of you that feels like you're being mean or unkind by not seeing things from his perspective because that's something you do within friendship. Does that track?

Sandy:             I see what you're saying. Yes. I also—this has been a conscious point of work that I've put in on myself—not to say it's easy. But you're—yes.

Jessica:            It's not easy. I mean, you're in your late 40s, right? So it's like you've had a good amount of life to work on this.

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            But at the same time, you have a Mercury/Saturn conjunction—out of sign, but in orb. And so you're super critical. You're super critical. You have no problem being like, "That's wrong. That doesn't look right." They're both true at the same time.

Sandy:             The criticism is more self-focused than outwardly focused.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, that makes sense because even within this question, you're like, "Okay. I'm concerned about my friend, but it also makes me concerned about myself." Right?

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. These aspects in your birth chart, in their best embodiment, empower you to be discerning, direct in your communication and in your thinking, and to have empathetic and truly kind boundaries to yourself and others. But it's always a struggle to get there because—fucking life, right? You are going through a lot now. You've been going through a lot for the past several years. You're changing. Your relationships are changing. And I imagine you're going through hormonal changes at this time as well.

                        The thing that has been working for you for the last five years, whatever the thing is—avocado on toast, nitrous, talking to your guides, braiding your hair—doesn't mean it's going to work anymore, because you're changing. And the older we get, the harder it is to adapt to that because we work so hard to fucking get to a place, and now, all of a sudden, you're changing. But that's literally what's up.

                        And this period of your life, Pluto is squaring your Venus. Part of that is big hormonal shifts, just because of the timing. It doesn't always mean that, but for you, when you coincide the age, it's like—whoosh—big hormonal shifts, which will shift your mental health, shift your spiritual body, and shift how your system engages with and reacts to drugs. It will also change your relationships—anyways, the intimate ones, the close friendships, the close dating relationships.

                        So this all kind of tracks as relevant issues for you. But I want to slow myself down and get a little bit grounded and kind of—let's tighten up your question—

Sandy:             Okay.

Jessica:            —because, of course, part of me wants to talk about your friend and look at your friend because they're clearly in crisis. I mean, what you described sounds like a person in crisis. And I'm not looking at them energetically, but I can see them out of the corner of my eye kind of thing, and they're in a lot of crisis. They're descending into a very paranoid place.

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And there is a part of you that is so scared that when I see that in them, that I might see that in you.

Sandy:             I don't know if I would have guessed that.

Jessica:            Do you ever worry about your own mental health?

Sandy:             I don't, but I was close—my ex-husband had a significant mental health crisis that precipitated our divorce. And so I've been very close to someone going through crisis psychosis before—

Jessica:            I see.

Sandy:             —[indiscernible 00:21:56] a lot.

Jessica:            Yeah. Okay. That might be what I'm seeing, and I'm misunderstanding it. It's like I'm just seeing a really big fear for you. It's like there's this part of you that really wants help with this, and there's a part of you that's like, "I don't want this to be happening. Please don't tell me this is happening."

Sandy:             That is exactly it.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. Where I want to kind of slow down and ask you is, what should we focus on now? Should we be focusing on your spirituality, your mental health? Is there a question about what to believe and how to believe it? Or are we actually talking about this friend?

Sandy:             I don't think I want to talk about the friend.

Jessica:            Great.

Sandy:             I think I'd rather talk about—I mean, you look at all woo, like the fact that I am convinced that I hear my dead dad sometimes and, you know, that I have dreams that are meaningful that contain people who have been dead for a long time. And I can't confirm any of that in the material plane. And the belief—you know, it's deep, and it is absolutely core to who I am, but it's not something that I could defend to anybody else.

                        So I'm observing this friend have to defend what he's—his behavior, which is indefensible. But he's using the same language that I would use to defend my beliefs.

Jessica:            Okay. Let me hop into that. The nature of belief is indefensible. Nobody can actually prove anything that they believe in when it's a spiritual belief, right?

Sandy:             Right. Yeah.

Jessica:            I mean, I know people like historians talk about the existence of Jesus and all those other people that are in the Bible. We actually don't have irrefutable proof that any of those stories is real. It's all belief, right?

Sandy:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            So the very nature of belief, spiritual belief, is indefensible. You just believe it. The question is, what do you do with that belief? I personally believe I talk to dead people. I believe I talk to animals. I believe I'm psychic. If I walked around and I was like, "Oh, friends, let me tell you you're believing the wrong thing. This is what you should believe," if I was telling people what to do, if I was harming myself or others or putting myself in harm's way or putting others in harm's way, this is where a line is crossed.

                        This is true—I mean, it's really interesting that we're having this conversation because we can have this conversation about how the rise of Christian nationalism is forcing other people to abide by religious laws that not everybody agrees with, religious convictions that—this is a thing happening in society as well as happening in your life.

Sandy:             Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jessica:            And are you religious as well?

Sandy:             I was raised Catholic, but I'm not in any way practicing.

Jessica:            Okay. So you might be able to look at, let's say, on more of a systemic, a less personal level, okay, a lot of Catholics don't believe in abortion. That's their belief based on something in the Bible that they believe is true. Cool. Do you believe that all embodiments of that belief and all ways of holding that belief and all ways of enforcing that belief are equal?

Sandy:             No.

Jessica:            Neither do I.

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Cool. So I don't want you to lose that example.

Sandy:             Yeah. I see where you're going.

Jessica:            You see where I'm going?

Sandy:             I gotcha.

Jessica:            Because just because you believe in woo doesn't mean that all woo is the same, and it doesn't mean that all ways of holding it are the same, because this person is in chaos and is putting himself in harm's way, and not just putting himself in harm's way—could harm other people—

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            —unintentionally. Also, there's definitely, it looks like, a substance abuse issue happening.

Sandy:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            It is healthy and wise to question yourself, to be like, "Okay. So I feel like I'm communicating with a lost loved one. I feel like I'm getting guidance. Is this a mental health issue? Is this completely linked to drug use?" It's good to ask those questions. I think it's really healthy.

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And when I look at you energetically, it's not completely lined to drug use for you. Is that correct?

Sandy:             The spirituality?

Jessica:            Yes, the spirituality, the hearing from your lost father or having connection with guidance. It's not exclusively when you're using drugs; is that correct?

Sandy:             Yeah. I wouldn't say it's connected at all to using drugs.

Jessica:            It doesn't look like it. It looks like you've had moments, but they're just moments.

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And also, it looks like—and please tell me if this is wrong, but it looks like you have a kind of overall feeling of being open to shifting your reality helps you to be a person who's open to shifting your reality. It's not like partying equals, but it's like all part of a larger ethos for you. Am I seeing that correctly?

Sandy:             You are. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Great, great, great. All right. So there's a connection. Beautiful. Okay. When you have these spiritual experiences, it does not specifically tell you what to do, who to believe, who to trust, and it does not tell you that you're in danger. Is that all correct?

Sandy:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. So those are all part of my red flag package that I'm sharing with you because let's say there's no such thing as guides, and the guidance you receive is some sort of psychological construct you've created in your own head. Let's say, when dead people die, they're dead. That's it. There's no way you could ever hear from your dead father. Let's say that's true. Obviously, I don't believe any of that, but let's say that's true. Let's hang out there. What is the harm that you've caused to yourself or others by holding those convictions or receiving guidance from either source? I'm not seeing any.

Sandy:             I would not say there has been. Yeah.

Jessica:            No. It's been a source of comfort. It's been a source of affirmation and comfort. With your friend, there's a stark difference because he is experiencing being told what to do and who to trust. I'm seeing this thing about who to trust. You haven't said that, but that's part of something I'm seeing. Is that correct?

Sandy:             Interesting.  I can see where it would be.

Jessica:            Okay. Yeah. There's a lot of paranoia in this person.

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            They look like a firework or a firecracker, like there's all this energy sparking off of them and it's depleting them really intensely. They're very depleted. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that some of your Catholic family members hold their feelings about abortion in a way that to you seems really unhealthy and unkind, and other people hold it as a personal belief, and that actually—you don't agree with it, maybe, but it's not actively going out of the way to control or harm self or others, right?

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Apply that to all woo.

Sandy:             Okay. [crosstalk].

Jessica:            Yeah.

Sandy:             Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jessica:            And for me, with spirituality, the deeper you go into spirituality—especially woo spirituality, especially now in the days of the internet—it's really important to have ongoing conversations with yourself and trusted people, people who don't always gas you up but trusted people, about where you're at in linear reality. And when I look at you, I'm seeing all of your problems with linear reality have nothing to do with the things we're talking about. You got problems, but it's not these things.

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So continuing to give yourself the gift of belief in that which cannot be proven and the boundaries and the self-care of recognizing that there can be a mental health and a spiritual experience at the same time and navigating your wellness is something that has to be a little bit of a group project, maybe you and a therapist, maybe you and a bestie—whatever—and that this is not exclusive to woo-woo, right? It's also for Catholics and Christians and all religions. You can have spiritual psychosis. It is a thing. I didn't come up with that term. It exists, and it's not exclusive to alternative spirituality.

                        Have I answered your question? I feel like there might be more to your question.

Sandy:             I do feel like the instruction on how to hold it, how to hold the distribution of judgment on it, is really helpful. That example of you and abortion being harmful to someone else or to something that you believe quietly—yes, that rings—I can certainly copy and paste that into something meaningful internally.

Sandy:             Great. Love the use of copy and paste, as well. Thank you. Yes. Yeah. Does it leave you with any other questions about you or this topic or this relationship?

Sandy:             Something that came up for me as we were speaking is that a common friend between me and this person is my sister. And my sister is decidedly not woo, and she's closer to this friend than I am, does speak to this person on the daily. And her first line of defense as, you know, what is going on is to—not demonize, but she's not—the woo is the first slash, you know?

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. Yep.

Sandy:             And it has been a difficult conversation to hold with my sister because she wants to just kind of immediately dismiss by definition all these things that I have to—I think this is where the root of the question is, really, is in talking to someone who I love dearly and disagree with deeply, how do I defend my woo and demonize my friend's woo at the same time?

Jessica:            Yeah. So one question first. Is your sister religious?

Sandy:             No.

Jessica:            No. Okay. You used this word, "demonize," right?

Sandy:             I did.

Jessica:            You did. Yeah. It's—again, that Neptune/Sun square that you have in your birth chart is devotional. So you feel, "If I'm being critical, then I'm demonizing"—

Sandy:             Yes, I do.

Jessica:            —when I would say being critical is the only way to love someone. I want all of my friends to tell me when I'm hanging out outside of what they perceive to be healthy relationship to reality. To me, that's a kindness. I also want people to tell me if there's food in my teeth. I also want people to tell me if there's a flat spot in my hair. I want to be told what's wrong so I can tend to it. Now, you don't feel that way, because you don't want to be unkind. And this does come from your religious upbringing for both you and your sister, right?

                        Now, let's hang out here because it's really interesting that your sister would see somebody doing a lot of drugs—right? This person is doing a lot of drugs at this point, right?

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay—somebody who's doing a lot of drugs and having a spiritual experience and having, potentially, a mental health crisis, and your sister's first thought is, "Eh. Drugs, schmugs. This is definitely because they're focusing on this woo-woo shit." Right?

Sandy:             Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            That is a reflection of your sister's religious trauma. You have gone in really different directions in how you respond to your Catholic upbringing. That's all. And so being able to say to your sister, "This guy that we are both friends with is having a crisis, and there's three things happening. There's drug use, there's mental health stuff, and there's spiritual health stuff. And I hear that you really think that the biggest issue is the spiritual stuff because it's the only thing that you don't identify with. But why would the spiritual belief be a bigger problem than drug use or mental health?" Ask your sister what she actually believes.

Sandy:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Also, feel free to use my two examples, relationship to abortion for Catholics and the color blue, because the truth of the matter is a lot of people—to me, the two biggest groups, but a lot of people—the two biggest groups to me are atheists and intellectuals—well, I guess and very religious people, so I'll say three groups—are very quick to not just be like, "Oh, I don't like that kind of spirituality," or, "I don't vibe with it," or, "I don't see the substance in it." But they go into pathology and, like, "It is bad. It is dangerous. It is wrong." And that's never really a result of education or experience. It's always, essentially, a defense of that person's intellectualism, their own relationship to religion, or their need to put all spiritual convictions in a dumb box, basically, right?

Sandy:             Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And so, when you ask me this question, "How do I defend my spiritual experience to my sister?" it's interesting because your sister is not defending her judgment to all spiritual experiences to you, and she doesn't have to, because she's smart for being critical of all belief. And you, on some level, agree with that because you live in the fucking world, and that is a real thing. Whether you believe in traditional religion or talking to ancestors and guides and astrology and all this shit, or you believe in all of it, which a lot of people do as well, it's all belief. And it cannot be intellectually justified or scientifically qualified.

                        But for those who are looking at the video version, they can see your little avatar has the Northern Lights behind you. There are things in life that are about inspiration and beauty, that are about belief, that are nonlinear. Do you have to justify it in order for it to be valid and real for you? A lot of people would say yes. I would say no. Of course I would say no. Look at me. You know what I mean?

                        The willingness that your sister has and you struggle with to impune all spiritual experiences as the same as the one that your friend is having as he overuses pretty heavy substances and appears to be having a mental health crisis—is that equal to all people who listen to astrology and connect with lost loved ones? I mean, to your sister, yes. To me, absolutely no. And to you, there's more of a question mark than you thought there was.

Sandy:             Yeah. I'm seeing that.

Jessica:            Yeah. And this is—it feels bad, but it's actually really good opportunity to, instead of collapse under your sister's criticism because there's a part of you that agrees with it or fears that it's real, to be able to say, "If ever I had a mental health crisis related to my spirituality, sister I love, I'm really glad that I could trust that you would talk to me about it and that you would see it before I did. And also, I have a lot of spiritual experiences that help me cope with life, that are comforting to me, that are inspiring to me, and they aren't a mental health crisis, and they aren't connected to drug use. And I want to just hold all of these things separately."

                        Now, again, I want to say I don't think drug use is inherently bad or wrong. But in this situation for your friend, it is wrapped up in something unwell for them, just for clarity, again. But being able to say that to your sister—is that something you think you could say to your sister, this and also that?

Sandy:             Yeah. We have a great relationship.

Jessica:            Great.

Sandy:             Everything's on the table as far as conversation goes.

Jessica:            Great.

Sandy:             So I could absolutely have this conversation with her.

Jessica:            Good. And it would be great for you to be able to say, "Hey, this whole situation has had me questioning my own woo-ness, and I'm going to continue to question it. And I don't think that that in any way invalidates it. And I know that you don't need spirituality, and I do. And, sister who I love, I want to make sure you hold respect for the ways we're different"—

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            —because if she does respect your differences, then you can trust her to be a great resource in your life if ever you started to go in a direction that was not healthy.

Sandy:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            But she has no reason to accuse you of that at this time or bring up that concern at this time; is that correct?

Sandy:             Correct.

Jessica:            And she never has, eh?

Sandy:             Never.

Jessica:            So it is also fair for you to say to your sister, "Sometimes the way you talk about this guy that we're both friends with feels like you're shoving all spiritual conviction that is nonreligious, or all spiritual conviction and belief at all, into the same bucket. And as a spiritual person, that just sometimes makes me feel really bad. And I've used it as a way to question and interrogate my experiences, but also, the way you talk about it makes me feel bad, and it makes me feel judged."

Sandy:             Yeah. That's fair.

Jessica:            Yeah. And so ask her to be a little bit more considerate or to have a difficult conversation with you about what she actually believes, right?

Sandy:             Right.

Jessica:            Because maybe your sister actually thinks everything you believe is stupid. Okay. If that's how she feels, then you need to have a conversation around the boundaries around how she communicates with you. Maybe you need to have a fight, a good sister fight or something. But we don't have to be the same as our loved ones. We don't have to have the same spiritual beliefs as our loved ones. But we do have to have mutual respect, right?

Sandy:             Right.

Jessica:            And I think it's fair for you to say to your sister, "I haven't been asking you for respect because your judgments have made me question myself. And some of that is shitty, and some of that has been really valuable for me," because I think it has been valuable for you to question this stuff.

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Now, there's something else that's coming up for me, which is not something you've said, so you tell me if this is actually a question. But it's your concern about what your responsibility is to your friend. Is that a question for you?

Sandy:             I kind of feel like everyone who's close to this person is reflecting on that. I know my sister sure is.

Jessica:            Yeah. Is that something you want me to speak to?

Sandy:             Yeah, if it's a place that I could be impactful.

Jessica:            Yeah. Will you say your full name and then the friend's full name?

Sandy:             My birth name is [redacted]. Friend is [redacted].

Jessica:            Some of his spiritual experiences—he's scared inside of them, eh?

Sandy:             I'm not aware of that.

Jessica:            So has he expressed to you what's happening during these experiences?

Sandy:             There has been some explanation, but to be honest, it didn't make sense.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. And you mentioned he had gone driving at night or something like that. Was he trying to get away from something or trying to find something?

Sandy:             As far as I understand—this was told to me from my sister—he was told to leave in the middle of the night, and so his partner jumped in the car with him so that he wouldn't be alone. And the instruction was to leave the house immediately.

Jessica:            So that's fear-based, right?

Sandy:             That does sound fear-based. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's fear-based. Okay. This person's scared. He's hearing things that are scaring him. I am not a mental health person, and I think it's really important that I affirm that. I know you know that, but also, it's—never hurts to affirm it, right? And after 30 years of being a consulting practitioner of astrology and psychic stuff, what I have a strong conviction around is that your guides will never tell you something scary. When your guides are communicating with you—I'm not talking about your ancestors. I'm not talking about lost loved ones. I'm talking about your guides. When your guides speak to you, it's always neutral. It's not excited. It's not positive. It's not scary. It's not negative. It's always neutral. So that's hot tip, okay?

                        The second—it's fear-based, punishing, critical, positive, gassing you up? That's a red flag. That's not your guides. Strict instruction? Very unusual. Very unusual. And it's more common with people who are professional psychics, who work the muscle, because like any other skill—you know, if you're a singer—you've got a naturally great voice—if you actually take vocal lessons and you practice singing, then you are a better singer, right? You have a stronger instrument to use.

                        The same is true with psychic stuff. So you start having these spiritual experiences, and it's coupled with substance use especially. It is highly unlikely that you're going to get literal instruction, "You have to leave the house." Literal instruction—that is very uncommon, unlikely, okay? So I'm just going to, first of all, say that that's where I'm coming from.

                        Let's say—and we cannot know, but let's say your friend is having a spiritual experience and spiritual awakening. That does not mean he is not at the same time having a mental health crisis or a substance abuse crisis. It does not mean that the substances he's using aren't fucking up his brain chemistry. It doesn't mean that he's not also experiencing some sort of mental health fracture.

                        And I think for your community to—it looks like you're all kind of deer in headlights around this. You're not quite sure how to handle it or how involved to get or what to do. And I don't think that's helping him, and I don't think he wants help.

Sandy:             I agree with that.

Jessica:            But that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve help, and it doesn't mean that it's not important to you or your community to offer help. And that help would be mental health help. That help would be intervention around the substance use. That is what it looks like to me. And how involved you need to be is completely at your discretion. This is not your bestie, right? Am I understanding that correctly?

Sandy:             Correct.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. But it is somebody who's a real friend, correct?

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. You can express your concern to him. Have you done this yet?

Sandy:             No.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. He'll probably cut you out, it looks like. Yeah. He'd probably get pretty defensive. But that doesn't mean it's not worth it. Advocating for the wellness of your loved ones is always a good idea, even if they can't hear it in the moment. And so I'm going to give you the homework of getting data—real, reliable data—about the side effects of nitrous. You can probably contact some sort of drug clinic to be like, "I have a friend who's having this experience and doing these things. Can you give me information about this? Can you give me ideas?" There are free resources out there. You might want to do that. You might be able to find that shit online.

                        And then maybe talk to your sister or your community about, what does this look like? Or maybe decide to just one-on-one with this guy and see if you can have a conversation with him. I do see that with your ex-husband, it was so consuming that you're scared of touching it at all.

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And I think it's important that you set for yourself some boundaries around the expectations of this friendship regarding—I mean, that was your husband. This is your friend but not best friend, right?

Sandy:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            So it's okay for you to have some measure of boundaries here, right? I mean, I say some measure. Have boundaries. Just have boundaries. And also, you probably need help. So talk to your sister and be like, "Okay. I actually think I need to say something to him because I'm worried about him. And I do hold similar beliefs, but I feel like he's going in a place that really scares me for him." And say to your sister, "And also, this is reminding me of me and my ex-husband, and I need help and I need support."

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            She'll help you. She would totally have your back. Am I right about that?

Sandy:             Definitely.

Jessica:            Yeah. So a lot of what we're talking about is naming things and asking for support or recognizing when somebody else needs support. And you are going through, like I said, a Pluto square to Venus, and it brings up really dramatic relationship dynamics that test your values and the value that you hold in yourself. And so, again, I am happy for you that you've been questioning your spiritual beliefs and practices. That's a great thing for all of us to do. And also, through that process, you've discovered that you hold judgments around woo stuff, or you accept other people being judgmental about it. And that's interesting. That's interesting. Something that you so deeply believe, you also kind of aren't sure about. That's interesting, right? And it's worth investigation.

                        In my experience—again, 30 years of a practitioner—a lot, like the vast majority, of people who organize their lives around astrology and other woo stuff have this problem: don't completely respect it, don't completely trust it, feel like they're too smart to totally believe in it—feel all manner of things around it. And it's from living in the world. It's just like you might have body issues that are not really what you believe or what you hold, but you live in the world, so it's always in your system a little bit.

                        Okay. And I'm seeing also that there's—because you identified so heavily with this guy, now that he's gone in a wildly different direction from you, yeah, it's just rattling your sense of self.

Sandy:             Yeah, because I think, as an extrapolation of what we talked about with my sister and her judgment, it's just hard for me to tease apart the trajectory of my beliefs from—and I'm saying it through my mouth right now. I see how ridiculous that is that my beliefs are necessarily connected to this person's beliefs, which are influenced by substances. I know that's ridiculous.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Sandy:             But without examination, my reaction has been, like, "Oh, if my sister is condemning this, my sister is condemning me. If our community is taking a suspicious eye to look at him, I'm necessarily in that shadow, too." And those are self-worth issues—

Jessica:            Yeah. They are.

Sandy:             —at their core.

Jessica:            Yeah. And also, they're real issues. Right? They are real issues. And some people in your community might not be able to hold the difference between leaving your house in terror in the middle of the night and waking up from a dream where you had a connection with your lost loved one. But those people would be judgmental and weird because they're such radically different experiences. The way that I hold hearing a friend is Chrisitan or Catholic or whatever and—versus a white Christian nationalist or a religious extremist—we can hold those things really separately because they are really separate, right?

Sandy:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And I think that we have an easier time as a culture doing that with religion than we do with woo spirituality because there's already so many aspersions cast upon it, right? And this is a really good exercise for you to be going through. I know it sucks, but it's also—it's going to help you to—or at least it can help you to strengthen and honor your beliefs in the way that you've chosen to live as a spiritual person, and also to have better boundaries within your friendships. And I'm including your sister in that.

Sandy:             Yeah. I think that's timely.

Jessica:            Yeah. I do, too. And this is another thing about being tight friends with your sibling, is it's just impossible to not have your childhood shit directly influence your friendship as adults. It's impossible, right?

Sandy:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            So this is the kind of thing that would come up with a sibling. And it's really cool that it looks to me like you might have some uncomfortable conversations and you might find that you disagree about some shit, but she is your sister, she is your bestie. She is good. You guys are good. This is a conversation that I think will be good for both of you, even if it's hard.

Sandy:             Yeah. You're right.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we've kind of addressed it, but I want to just take a moment, give you some space to think. Are there any other questions? Is there anything kind of lingering in here?

Sandy:             No. I think we've talked about the murkiness of it as much as we can.

Jessica:            Yeah. I think so, too. I just kind of—as we wrap up, I want to say you have a Mercury/Saturn conjunction. I've given you some lists in this reading. If you haven't taken notes during the reading, you'll hear the recording; take notes. Return to your notes because I know you love some notes.

Sandy:             I love me some notes.

Jessica:            I see it. I know it. And the other thing I want to say is the practice of having critical analysis around belief is hard for everyone. And having critical analysis around belief doesn't mean interrogating all parts of what you believe, because spiritual belief is not about interrogation by nature. The practice of making sure that the ways in which it influences your behavior towards yourself and others is a really good reference point to consistently return to, and holding space for something that I think people maybe do more in woo spaces than in religious spaces, which is mental health and spiritual health, mental health experiences and spiritual experiences—they overlap sometimes in really healthy and affirming ways and sometimes in really dangerous ways.

Sandy:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And being in an ongoing conversation with yourself and your trusted loved ones about that space in yourself, in the world—again, it's happening systemically, in all manner of places. It's really healthy, and it isn't a rejecting of spirituality if it's done respectfully. And it's also not pretending that we don't have mental health struggles as spiritual people. So I just wanted to give you the language to make it more simple and less like, "Ahh. Am I questioning everything I believe? How could I possibly believe this and also believe that this friend is falling apart and not okay?"

Sandy:             Yeah. Thank you for that framework. That is helpful.

Jessica:            You're welcome. Yeah. You're welcome. When I saw your question, I was so glad for you to ask it. I mean, I feel so bad for your friend and for what you're going through, but it's a conversation we need to have as spiritual people, and not just woo-woo people, but certainly woo-woo people, especially because there's so much conspirituality out there. And we do have access to so many recreational drugs and pharmaceutical drugs that we can use or misuse. And I do think that this is just a good thing to continue to think about and talk about and be curious about.

And also, the final thing I'll say is fucking Google the side effects of the drugs you're taking before you fucking take them. You know what I mean?

Sandy: I don't fuck with nitrous, though.

Jessica:            Yeah. I mean, that's good. And also, just as a practice, whether it's a pharmaceutical or a party drug, there's nothing wrong with being a little informed.

Sandy:             I feel you. I feel you.

Jessica:            Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, most of the times, we don't inform ourselves because we don't want to fucking know, right? I would never have smoked a cigarette if I had really known what it did to me when I did. You know what I mean?

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            So I get why people don't do it, but better to have the information and ignore it than to not have the information and wish you had.

Sandy:             Yeah. That's fair.

Jessica:            I think the level of chaos in your marriage—it was so much all at once, but what you learned there directly applies to here, hopefully. Hopefully.

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah?

Sandy:             Well, it does. Yeah. It does, but you're right; it makes me really so cautious to engage because it was—I mean, that—I got out just barely from the other one.

Jessica:            Yeah. I see that energetically. Skin of teeth is a good expression for what happened to you. And so this is a great time to recognize, "Okay. I'm really activated." First, you were activated around your own spirituality. But also, you're activated because you got consumed by somebody else's mental health crisis in the past, right?

Sandy:             Yes.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. So great. You now know you don't have great boundaries in this situation. And so you have to proceed with caution, and you need more support. And so some of that support is, yeah, talk to a mental health professional. Talk to people because this isn't about just your friend; it's also about recognizing your own shit. Your ability to not get completely consumed in somebody else's activation, mental health activation, is your own mental health issue. Right?

Sandy:             It is. Yeah. That's the devotion. You're right.

Jessica:            It is. It's devotion. You're like, "I have to get consumed in their version of reality," even if I'm like they keep on saying the sky is yellow with pink polka-dots and you're like, "But it looks so blue." You don't dare to tell them because it feels like a cruelty. And then, also, you start to get consumed by their version of reality. This is a sticky, sticky landscape for you. And that means you need better boundaries. You need more support—not that there's something wrong with you, and not that you should suck it up and be there for them because they're clearly in trouble.

                        It's about coming at this with discernment and with support. Actually apply the lessons from your ex-husband to this friendship. And it's not really to this friendship—to how you show up in this friendship. And luckily, it doesn't look like your sister is your only friend who can support you on this. It looks like you have real people who really get you, who you can really talk to about this, and they will all have slightly different perspectives.

Sandy:             Yeah. I think you're right there.

Jessica:            Yeah. So talking to people collecting information—do you have a shrink?

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. Shrinking this, shrinking it down—you know, like really get in there with your therapist. All of this is really good stuff. And do you talk to your therapist about your own spirituality?

Sandy:             I do. Yeah.

Jessica:            Great. Good. Very important. I'm so happy to hear it. Great. You're on the right path. It's just full of brambles.

Sandy:             Yeah. It's murky as fuck.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. It's murky as fuck, and you will get ensnared by things. And every time you do, you can be like, "Okay. So this is a point of activation."

Sandy:             Okay.

Jessica:            "I want to get to a place inside of myself where I can be like, 'I am activated. Now I'm going to get curious instead of activated and defensive.'" So, for you, you vacillate between, "I'm going to defend my own spirituality," and, "I have to defend my friend's spirituality," right?

Sandy:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            You're defending something before you're curious enough about, like, "What am I trying to defend? My right to believe things? My understanding that I could have a mental health crisis but I'm not having a mental health crisis? My friend seems like they're having a mental health crisis?" Right?

Sandy:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            The messiness there is really hard for you because you don't yet have reliable, consistent practices around being a mess and not becoming part of the mess. Yeah.

Sandy:             Like you know me.

Jessica:            It is. And so this is a great opportunity for you to develop those skills—

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            —and to do it because you love yourself, and to do it because you care for your friends, and also to do it because this is, like—it's what's happening in your life. It's how you're showing up in your life. Yeah. I'm going to give you one last piece of homework, okay?

Sandy:             Please.

Jessica:            Can you get your buns into nature today?

Sandy:             Yeah, I can.

Jessica:            Okay. To be honest, I'm specifically seeing feet in sand.

Sandy:             That's going to be tough. It's really raining hard outside.

Jessica:            Okay, okay, okay. Do you have a thing for feet and sand? Is that a thing that really grounds you or makes you feel really happy?

Sandy:             It is a visual I use for grounding often.

Jessica:            Oh, it's the—that's what I'm—okay. So maybe I'm misinterpreting it. Maybe what it is is you need to, when we get off this call, do your grounding exercises. And then, if you can get yourself to a beach, fabulous. Maybe it's raining. Maybe you just run out, be like, "Oh, this is terrible," and then run back to your car, which I have done many times in my life. But also, if I'm seeing your grounding thing, then that's what I'm being shown. I just misunderstood.

Sandy:             Cool.

Jessica:            Yeah. And—oh. Okay. I'm really glad that happened. I sit here as your psychic, and I saw something psychically. And I made an assumption about what it meant because that's what I do, because psychic data is not literal. And then I shared it with you, and you were like, "Actually, this is how it shows up for me. And I was like, "Okay. Cool. Happy to adapt." That didn't invalidate what I saw. It had nothing to do, really, with me. It's that, on the spiritual level, things are not always linear. And that's great. That doesn't invalidate it. It doesn't prove it either.

What I was just shown is the reason why this happened at the very end—other than I think it was good advice for me to tell you to get grounded, because you could go off in your head now, but do your grounding work after we get off the call. But also, I think what I'm being shown is that it's like another moment of affirming for you doesn't have to be linear to be real or to be useful and nurturing. Right?

Sandy:             Yeah.

Jessica:            It doesn't always have to be, quote unquote, "right" to be exactly what you need to hear. Sometimes you hear what you need to hear and not the right thing. You've seen The Matrix.

Sandy:             Mm-hmm. Yep. For sure.

Jessica:            Good. Okay. Good. Good. And that's your reading, my dear.

Sandy:             Thank you.

Jessica:            It's so my pleasure.